Originally posted by marinakatombFor your convenience:
Cool, would you mind doing this in the forum, sounds interesting. 🙂
EDIT: DOH, read thread before you post dumbass 😳
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html (English translation)
http://philoctetes.free.fr/apologieplaton.htm (original)
Okay, I'll start, presuming Bennett is still willing to engage.
Originally posted by bbarr
First, let's try to reconstruct the argument Socrates gives against Meletus' charge that he corrupts the Athenian youth. The argument starts with this premise:
1) If I corrupt the youth, then either I do so willingly or unwillingly.
How does the argument proceed from there?
Socrates reverses the accusation against Meletus in claiming that he has never before had any interest in the youth, corruption or otherwise, and that he is an evil-doer for making light of a serious subject by making claims on something he has shown no previous interest in. Socrates then begins to ask a number of questions which I assume are tools with which to pin Meletus down to a version of an arguement which Socrates can refute.
Originally posted by StarrmanI'll try and paraphrase the arguement tomorrow if no-one's got anything else to say at the moment.
Okay, I'll start, presuming Bennett is still willing to engage.
Originally posted by bbarr
First, let's try to reconstruct the argument Socrates gives against Meletus' charge that he corrupts the Athenian youth. The argument starts with this premise:
1) If I corrupt the youth, then either I do so willingly or unwillingly.
How does t are tools with which to pin Meletus down to a version of an arguement which Socrates can refute.
Originally posted by StarrmanYes, but these are attacks on Meletus' character; they are attempt to show Meletus as a hypocrite. I'm asking about Socrates' defense against Meletus' claims. I want to know what reasons Socrates gives us for thinking that Meletus' claim that Socrates deserves punishment for corrupting the Athenian youth is false.
Okay, I'll start, presuming Bennett is still willing to engage.
Originally posted by bbarr
First, let's try to reconstruct the argument Socrates gives against Meletus' charge that he corrupts the Athenian youth. The argument starts with this premise:
1) If I corrupt the youth, then either I do so willingly or unwillingly.
How do ...[text shortened]... are tools with which to pin Meletus down to a version of an arguement which Socrates can refute.
Originally posted by bbarrHe first gets Meletus to claim that he is the 'only' corrupter of the youth. Socrates then argues this claim by attempting to show that if he is the only corrupter, then everyone else must be an enhancer of the lives of the youth. He likens the training of horses to that of the young and shows that it is not the majority that best improve the horse, but the single trainer who spends time with it.
Yes, but these are attacks on Meletus' character; they are attempt to show Meletus as a hypocrite. I'm asking about Socrates' defense against Meletus' claims. I want to know what reasons Socrates gives us for thinking that Meletus' claim that Socrates deserves punishment for corrupting the Athenian youth is false.
He then goes on to get Meletus to clarify that he 'intentionally' corrupts the youth, for as Socrates says, unintentional corruption has no standing in law. He argues against this by suggesting that since, as Meletus puts it, evil begets evil and good begets good, anyone living with another would not teach corruption for fear of being corrupted in return. So either Socrates corrupts unintentionally or he does not corrupt at all.
The text then proceeds to Meletus' claim on Socrates being an atheist.