@quackquack saidYes there are plenty of clueless people around the world but only the US seems to revel in it.
I'm pretty confident that all the clueless people in the world don't reside in the US. Furthermore, if low skilled workers were really underpaid we wouldn't have pressure to do economically moronic things that place tariffs on goods. There is one way to know for certain if someone is over or under paid. Have a free market. I'm not sure why you are so afraid of them.
Many/most of your low paid workers are in the service industry ... that cannot be farmed out to the East.
And I am very much in favour of free markets and free trade. Who's afraid?
@quackquack saidThe United States has immense geopolitical clout, no doubt about it. However, it is not among the most prosperous economies, which is what I was talking about.
The United States whether you like it or dominates the worlds economy. Any significant downturn would effect the rest of the world far more than the other way around. So get a reality check and try again.
@kazetnagorra saidSo what are the most prosperous economies?
The United States has immense geopolitical clout, no doubt about it. However, it is not among the most prosperous economies, which is what I was talking about.
Are we taking the angle where the country that combines it with the lowest amount of poverty is the one we go for...? So we are lookign at places like Monaco & Luxembourg? Then, it feels kind of pointless.
I am guessing you will cleverly define it and choose those reasonably small (yet big) nations where everyone is well off and ghettos are few and far between like, say, Norway or the Netherlands, but even here it is changing rather fast.
America has extremes... but it is also true that it is hard to find people in America that do not have access to smartphones & giant TVs & junk food dinners who aren't literally homeless.
You know, I have heard that in Argentina, even the poor eat steak. I have heard that, in Bhutan, everyone is smiling and friendly, and they want to simply be the happiest nation in the world.
Why not cheap steak & smiles? They are the real form of prosperity.
The issue I take with Marauder's post is only that it is very, very difficult to compare parts of the USA.
It looks like the data he is using may relate to per capita income (as Maine is 31st in this on the Wikipedia).
But I can say that there is a massive difference between costs of things in the USA, and this can have a massive impact on your livelihood. Earning $40,000 (below average) in Maine is better than earning $80,000 in NYC if you do not have a fixed cost apartment -- which is why, of course, plenty of people have mega-commutes.
On this list I believe that Montana is the 38th most poor state in the Union... Yet, this is another place where a little money goes a long ways. My cousin & his wife live in Montana as a young couple working very normal jobs, and they both can afford vehicles, a gorgeous home overlooking a valley, and enough money to privately stall their two horses. They would never have enough to live in LA or Miami on what they make, but if you were to take their floorspace and put it in a place like NYC or Miami they would be living like millionaires.
You know, there is a whole network where police work for 3-4 years in NYC, Chicago, Baltimore, etc., and then immediately apply for jobs in places like Boise, Idaho or Pierre, South Dakota because , even though tey will make less, they get to live in an incredibly cheap place with beautiful countryside.
Relative income is real -- especially in a place as big and diverse as the US, is it not?
SO, I find it hard to think of Montana as far poorer than New Jersey (the fifth richest state).
In Montana, you would be hard pressed to find extreme violence and gang shootings and schools as failing as bad as those of the fifth richest state of New Jersey in places like East Orange & Camden.
We also have to remember that the GOP votes in these places do not encessarily always represent fiscally conservative views. GOP candidates are voted for as cultural rural icons, and are expected to bring home policies which favor the locals.
IDk, it's a really complicated issue.
I also thank Marauder because it is a good topic and it does deserve us talking about it.
@philokalia saidActually Montana has an above average cost of living:
The issue I take with Marauder's post is only that it is very, very difficult to compare parts of the USA.
It looks like the data he is using may relate to per capita income (as Maine is 31st in this on the Wikipedia).
But I can say that there is a massive difference between costs of things in the USA, and this can have a massive impact on your livelihood. Earning ...[text shortened]...
I also thank Marauder because it is a good topic and it does deserve us talking about it.
Billings, Montana has an indexed Cost of Living of 107 (100 is the average cost of living in the United States) or about 7 percent higher than average. Billings, Montana.
https://www.movoto.com/guide/mt/cost-of-living-in-montana-how-does-it-stack-up-against-the-average-salary/
The index in other "cities" in Montana are about the same.
By contrast, my hometown, which is the capital of New York State has a slightly lower cost of living than Billings (which is about the same size in population):
Our cost of living indices are based on a US average of 100. An amount below 100 means Albany is cheaper than the US average. A cost of living index above 100 means Albany, New York is more expensive.
Albany cost of living is 101.3
https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/new_york/albany
@quackquack saidStates that tax more, in general give back more to the people, which has the flow on effect of making them more able to engage in the marketplace, which leads to more economic activity which leads to prosperity.
I don't think it is necessarily the most productive or the most wealthy. As you know, in New York it is common for retirees to snowbird (live in Florida or another warmer area for the winter). These people take advantage of cheaper land in a low tax area while they they benefit from the weather at a time when they don't need to be in any one place because they aren't wo ...[text shortened]... clude places like Texas, Florida and Nevada plus which, it is my understanding have lower tax rates.
States that reduce taxes generally have less to spend on infrastructure and programs that uplift people in terms of education to be more job ready and as a consequence the wealth in the State concentrates among the already wealthy, and there are fewer opportunities for that money to be injected into the economy to help create wealth for a broader demographic.
@no1marauder saidWow, I have no idea about those cost of living indexes at all.
Actually Montana has an above average cost of living:
Billings, Montana has an indexed Cost of Living of 107 (100 is the average cost of living in the United States) or about 7 percent higher than average. Billings, Montana.
https://www.movoto.com/guide/mt/cost-of-living-in-montana-how-does-it-stack-up-against-the-average-salary/
The index in other "cities" in M ...[text shortened]...
Albany cost of living is 101.3
https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/new_york/albany
I would initially just guess that, perhaps, the cost of rent (which may not be included) would at least be significantly less than average...
And while Billings may be above average, there is a chance that the surrounding townships and especially isolated towns throughotu the Montana area could be much cheaper.
But hey, we're in over my head.
I do remember feeling the price difference between Monterey (CA), San Francisco (CA), Minneapolis (MN), Fargo (ND), and San Angelo (TX) back in 2003-2008 when I was living in and traveling between those places -- especially in terms of eating out and transportation, hotels, etc. And it seemed like California was definitely more expensive in regards to msot of this.
Sadly, this is more of an in-depth study than my coffee break allows at this point so I'll have to respond later.