Originally posted by telerion"I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free . . ."
😀
Chancre, I think you are being overly-sensitive. I didn't bad-mouth the US. If I bad-mouthed anything, it was zealous nationalism, the kind of blindingly patriotic rhetoric that is both vacuous, divisive.
IMHO you should also be a bit more careful about throwing your service record into your arguements. As I pointed out in my last post, you cl ...[text shortened]... nks for the encouragement 😉 . You can keep the guilt complex though. I won't be needing it.
(blah blah blah, propaganda, bad music, ignorance, blah blah blah)
This is what I'm talking about, telerion. Do you think having pride in being an American and realizing how free one is is ignorant and propagandizing?...this doesn't sound like "zealous nationalism"...and how is the above statement "vaucous" and "decisive"?
I didn't "throw" my service record anywhere. I was just making a simple aside that I am a veteran FYI...I didn't "throw" it anywhere. I don't care if you are a veteran, if so, more power to you...that is not the point and neither are your family or your experiences...see, you must be a Kerry man because you are accusing me of doing something that I am not doing, such as "flaunting my service to my country"...see, you're saying things that are not true, my economist friend, because I haven't made my service an issue...but you have. And by the way, I think more Americans should start getting "overly sensitive" about the state of their country, don't you?
Originally posted by chancremechanicYou don't equate 'bad-mouthing' with any sort of criticism, do you? Suppose I were to claim that the US should not have invaded Iraq, because it diverted resources away from the War on Terror, and hence made us less safe. Now, I don't want to debate this issue, but I want to know if you think this critical claim amounts to kicking dirt in the fact of US soldiers.
When you bad mouth the US as you did in your previous post, and you have every right to as a citizen, you kick dirt in the face of every American serving in Iraq and Afghanistan...
I see no reason, what-so-ever, to be proud of something just because my parents pooped me out there.
I see no reason to be proud of the rulers of the land I am forced to inhabit. They do no deed which is worthy of pride.
I have no reason to be proud (edit: of) Winston Churchill. He sent tanks up to St. George's square in Glasgow to stop a demonstration.
Nope. Nationalism is pure and utter propaganda, brainwashing you into believing that it really makes a difference you were born on one piece of rock rather than an other. And in doing so, makes you feel a cohesion with people from that same rock, whether they are abusing you or not!
I'm proud of people who do good and never reap any benifits for it. It reminds me we're not all a virus that really needs extinguishing.
Originally posted by bbarrNot at all! What you are doing is dissenting as any decent citizen should, but the way telerion derided a song that was written to American servicemen and women during the 80s and basically calling anyone who holds such feelings "ignorant", "nationalistic zealots", and "propagandists" (at least that's the way I interpreted it) was insulting, at least to me. He has a right, though, to say this, and I will defend it to the best of my abilities...🙂
You don't equate 'bad-mouthing' with any sort of criticism, do you? Suppose I were to claim that the US should not have invaded Iraq, because it diverted resources away from the War on Terror, and hence made us less safe. Now, I don't want to debate this issue, but I want to know if you think this critical claim amounts to kicking dirt in the fact of US soldiers.
Originally posted by shavixmirAnd that is your right to believe as such...but do you really believe in anarchy?
I see no reason, what-so-ever, to be proud of something just because my parents pooped me out there.
I see no reason to be proud of the rulers of the land I am forced to inhabit. They do no deed which is worthy of pride.
I have no reason to be proud (edit: of) Winston Churchill. He sent tanks up to St. George's square in Glasgow to stop a demonstra ...[text shortened]... reap any benifits for it. It reminds me we're not all a virus that really needs extinguishing.
Originally posted by chancremechanicI do think anarchy is a step up from socialism which is a step up from capitalism, yes.
And that is your right to believe as such...but do you really believe in anarchy?
But the belief, assuming you are referring to a form of pride associated with belief in a country, is different.
I think I could be proud of a system. I'd have to see it work though and I'd have to be certain a vast majority (compared to now) were benifitting from it.
A country? No. That's just a piece of land. A rock if you will.
Originally posted by chancremechanicFair enough, thanks for the clarification.
Not at all! What you are doing is dissenting as any decent citizen should, but the way telerion derided a song that was written to American servicemen and women during the 80s and basically calling anyone who holds such feelings "ignorant", "nationalistic zealots", and "propagandists" (at least that's the way I interpreted it) was insulting, ...[text shortened]... me. He has a right, though, to say this, and I will defend it to the best of my abilities...🙂
Originally posted by shavixmirChurchill sent tanks to stop a demonstration. Wow, now I am proud of him.
I see no reason, what-so-ever, to be proud of something just because my parents pooped me out there.
I see no reason to be proud of the rulers of the land I am forced to inhabit. They do no deed which is worthy of pride.
I have no reason to be proud (edit: of) Winston Churchill. He sent tanks up to St. George's square in Glasgow to stop a demonstra ...[text shortened]... reap any benifits for it. It reminds me we're not all a virus that really needs extinguishing.
Originally posted by Brother EdwinAs you should be! I'm glad we converted you 😵
Churchill sent tanks to stop a demonstration. Wow, now I am proud of him.
Churchill made mistakes as any human would. He also did a great many things that were heroic. I feel that his "good" greatly outwieghed his "bad", if you will.
Leading a country through it's most threatening war in history against nearly unbeatable odds...and all you remember is what he did wrong?
That's so unfair that it is not even funny.
Hmmmm, Maybe you have a point. If Hitler had won, you would not have had a problem with demonstrators.
An American of English decent.....proud of both.
What's a few lives when it's comes to petrol, right? (Sure you're not American? 🙄 )
Well, I'd have to say it's pretty hard to just run people over. Most truck drivers don't like doing it. Gets the front of the truck all dirty. Well, I guess if they got it up to second gear then most of the splatter would go off to the sides. But I think it's against union policy or something silly like that.
Ok, enough of the sarcasm. When people put their lives in front of an asset needed to operate the country, it's a pretty tough situation. The coutry needs petrol, but you can't kill innocent protestors.......as much as you might want to. Those darn liberals get all fussy when we do that. Our leaders are faced with very difficult problems. Often times, the best solution is one that is going to make someone angry. Besides that, the people in charge aren't magically born smarter than everyone else; they aren't given a special shirt that makes them infallable; they don't have a keebler elf in their desk drawer that waves a wand and makes everything taste better. (but that would be really cool) They are a person no different than you or I and they can make mistakes no different then you or I.
I sure wouldn't want to be in charge and have to face that. And I most definately would not want every little mistake I make broadcast on CNN within 5 minutes of making it.
I could see it now......."President attempts to get out of car before unbuckling seatbelt, can we trust this idiot with our social security?"
Originally posted by Saint Nicki was hitchhiking once, and a truckie took me from brisbane to adelaide through a bit of a kangaroo plague.
..... Well, I'd have to say it's pretty hard to just run people over. Most truck drivers don't like doing it. Gets the front of the truck all dirty. Well, I guess if they got it up to second gear then most of the splatter would go off to the sides. ....
at one stage we had a car follow us close - very close.
the driver told me to watch: most roos would go out the side - but sometimes one will popup dead centre.
sure enough after half a dozen corpses flying out to the side, the car had a roo smack bang centre in it's radiatior.
we only stopped very occasionally to check that no cables under the truck had been disconnected (and the inevitable tyre checks), otherwise the driver really was not too concerned.
these were not humans of course - but they were cute furry friendly symbols of australia.
Originally posted by Brother EdwinEr....the protesters were the truckdrivers (if this is the incident I think you're talking about). You would have told them to run over themselves? 😵
Well it depents what they were demontrrating. But that time where the whole of England went with no fual because some protesters sat outsite the depos was redicluious. If I was in charge I would of told the truckdrivers to fun them over if they got in the way.
MÅ¥HÅRM