Originally posted by shavixmirWhy are you separating people by class? People are people, there are those in power correct, but they are still people no different than those that are not in power, except for the power. Power reveals corruption, so if those that are poor suddenly find themselves in position of power, will we see any less corruption? No, reason being is that people are corrupt, this is why having laws that are not slanted one way or another are so important. If we favor one group over another we start a new wave of corruption do we not? We have been so beat over the head that this group is hurting that group that we lose the fact that there is really only one group! As long as we do not fight to keep laws balanced and applied fairly no matter what position or wealth people have we are inviting trouble.
Nope.
Religion is just one of the excuses the ruling classes use to convince plebs like us to do the killing for them.
What it's really about is power, money and land.
Kelly, I think he when he speaks of class, he is not primarily concerned with the individual people that make up the class. He is speaking about the conflict that arises naturally between groups of people with different shares of power in a society. So if a poor person suddenly becomes a member of the wealthy elite, thus imbued with some greater measure of power, and furthermore employs this power both to preserve his/her status and to suppress the upward mobility of the poor, then nothing really changes. The class conflict remains.
You are right that in some aspects at least nearly all of us can be thought of as one group (e.g. one group of earthlings, one group of decent people trying to get by in this gods-forsaken world, one group of utility maximizers). On the otherhand when discussing political and economic power within a society this approach is too broad. There are real differences between rich and poor in most countries. These differences need to be examined honestly, rather than ignored or glossed over.
Originally posted by KellyJay
As long as we do not fight to keep laws balanced and applied fairly no matter what position or wealth people have we are inviting trouble.
I absolutely agree.
Originally posted by KellyJayTo Telerion you listen, young padawan...
Why are you separating people by class? People are people, there are those in power correct, but they are still people no different than those that are not in power, except for the power. Power reveals corruption, so if those that are poor suddenly find themselves in position of power, will we see any less corruption? No, reason being is that people are cor ...[text shortened]... lanced and applied fairly no matter what position or wealth people have we are inviting trouble.
Not all people are the same though.
I know people who will steal a dime if they get the chance and I know people who have the chance of stealing 1.000.000 dollars, but don't.
Now, it may be upbringing, it may be genes, you name it...
It's not what I'm talking about though.
What I'm suggesting is that the people with most of the power in this world have and will continue to want more of it. They want more land, they want cheaper labour, they want more power.
Now, the majority of these people are not fit enough to step inside a boxing ring, never mind fight a war on their own. So they need to motivate people to do the fighting for them.
Listen to these two arguments:
1.
I want you to fight for me to make me richer. Obviously if we win you'll still remain on the same pay, sweating your guts out to make me richer.
2.
We've got a problem. The catholics are becoming more and more powerful. If they have it their way...they'll have your job! I'll be forced to take them on! You'll lose your job and your way of life. Your way of life is in danger, because these catholics are anti-abortion. You'll have less choice. We must join together to protect our freedom.
Which of the two causes do you think will attract more support?
Also, these laws you are talking about, to create a fair society...who made them? The have's or the have-nots?
Have you ever noticed how if you refuse to pay poll-tax you can be locked up as only a pregnant woman can, but if you steal millions, you are let off, like Guiness was? (yes, his Alzheimers mysteriously cured).
Originally posted by shavixmirI fail to see your point, if laws are applied fairly to rich and poor many of the troubles you see go away. To take from someone because you can is simply stealing, if you do it to a poor person or a rich one. If one uses the law or the church it is still abusing something for things lusted for. It is only while we allow such things to happen will we continue to see corruption. I believe the Republicans cut other Republicans too much slack, and Democrats cut other Democrats too much slack for things done against the law. If this were not true we would have more honest people in power, as it is I don't trust many of them. As far as church cutting people within church slack, that too happens even when children are involved. It isn't about church or political power, it is what we allow "OUR GUY" to get away with.
To Telerion you listen, young padawan...
Not all people are the same though.
I know people who will steal a dime if they get the chance and I know people who have the chance of stealing 1.000.000 dollars, but don't.
Now, it may be upbringing, it may be genes, you name it...
It's not what I'm talking about though.
What I'm suggesting is that ...[text shortened]... ou steal millions, you are let off, like Guiness was? (yes, his Alzheimers mysteriously cured).
Originally posted by newbie999I'd say no, but I dislike Kerry too. I'm not happy with either party; I have voted Republican more than Democrat just to let you know where I have leaned in the past. I do believe Bush has a great deal of hate towards him, and much of it unjust, but not all of it.
are u a Bush supporter kelley?