religious loyalty or national loyalty?

Originally posted by aging blitzer
None of those, I'm a capitalist.
My allegiance is to me me me, stuff everyone else.

You are the sort which breeds 'bolsheviks'.

Originally posted by Philodor
You are the sort which breeds 'bolsheviks'.

yeah, me and the rest of the Tory party

Originally posted by SALADIN
some show more loyality to the football team they support then anything else!🙂

Yeah exactly. But that is their right - they have a right not to show loyalty to their country. Its sad but we accept that yet when Muslims dont show loyalty to their country it is suddenly a terrible thing, why are the rules different? It cant be because Muslims are a terrorist threat because not being loyal to your country does in no way automatically translate to wanting to blow up your fellow citizens.

Originally posted by davidtravelling
Yeah exactly. But that is their right - they have a right not to show loyalty to their country. Its sad but we accept that yet when Muslims dont show loyalty to their country it is suddenly a terrible thing, why are the rules different? It cant be because Muslims are a terrorist threat because not being loyal to your country does in no way automatically translate to wanting to blow up your fellow citizens.

Football? A game played by yobs for yobs.

Originally posted by Philodor
Football? A game played by yobs for yobs.

Ah, the good old days when football was a game for the workers, played for the love of the game.
Now it's been taken over by the capitalist money men

Originally posted by davidtravelling
Yeah exactly. But that is their right - they have a right not to show loyalty to their country. Its sad but we accept that yet when Muslims dont show loyalty to their country it is suddenly a terrible thing, why are the rules different? It cant be because Muslims are a terrorist threat because not being loyal to your country does in no way automatically translate to wanting to blow up your fellow citizens.

There is a huge difference between football and a people at war with your country. What if there were people in England during World War 2 who were German who said that they were Germans first and then English? How would you respond to them?

Originally posted by whodey
There is a huge difference between football and a people at war with your country. What if there were people in England during World War 2 who were German who said that they were Germans first and then English? How would you respond to them?

Thats a different point and to be relevent you have to the subscribe into the "we are at war; war on terror" theory which is being propagated.

My point was that we seem to be singling out Muslims for criticism if they say they are not loyal to this country. There are a lot of people in this country who dont profess any particular loyalty be them white, black or asian yet it is only the muslims who are being attacked on these forums for having that kind of view.

Isnt that part of the discrimination that is leading people feeling alienated in the first place?

Originally posted by Philodor
Now.jackass, you clearly kow nothing of the Aztec sacrificial rites.Makes entertaining reading in Prescott's 'Conquest of Mexico', for example.

Prescott's "History of Mexico" written in 1843 by someone who had never even visited Mexico isn't exactly the most accurate source; it's more of a docudrama than a history. Later research of original source documents shows that Aztec sacrificial rites were hardly daily occurrences and prisoners of war were almost always used. This practice seems barbaric, but it was common practice at the time in Europe and elsewhere to simply kill most prisoners of war as well. At Agincourt, the English cut the throat of all the French prisoners except the nobles who could be ransomed. One could also point out that the Spanish were allowed to kill any Aztec who refused to convert to Christianity, so religious based killings were hardly confined to the Atzecs.

Originally posted by whodey
There is a huge difference between football and a people at war with your country. What if there were people in England during World War 2 who were German who said that they were Germans first and then English? How would you respond to them?

Looking closely at your analogy... are you saying that we are at war with Islam?

That seems to be the implication.

And don't you think there are people who describe themselves as Christian first, and then English/American/etc.?

Originally posted by Delmer
Do you feel any loyalty to bolshevism?

Ha, good question !

You know what though : before communism became associated with mindless loyalty to Stalin's Russia in the 1930s, it was synonymous with internationalism, with Marx's call for workers of all countries to unite. Now that's a principle I believe in : that ordinary people the world over have far more in common with one another, that unites us, than with the governments and the elites who rule over us.