return conscientious objector to USA?

Originally posted by slimjim
My question again is how many of those dead were VC? Apparrantly after the incident the attacks dropped significantly. War is never pretty. I ask God's forgiveness every day.

"I ask God's forgiveness every day."

You might want to consider repenting first. War is murder.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]"I ask God's forgiveness every day."

You might want to consider repenting first. War is murder.[/b]

I don't think wars in self-defense are "murder". I don't think that someone who serves in an illegal war at the level of a soldier is a murderer if he follows the laws of war applicable to him.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I don't think wars in self-defense are "murder". I don't think that someone who serves in an illegal war at the level of a soldier is a murderer if he follows the laws of war applicable to him.

I think all intentional taking of human life other than oneself is murder. The rationalizations that people come up with in an attempt to justify it to themselves is really sad.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I think all intentional taking of human life other than oneself is murder. The rationalizations that people come up with in an attempt to justify it to themselves is really sad.

You can change the meaning of words if you please, but the standard definition of murder is illegal, deliberate killing. Your sanctimonious tripe aside, killing in self-defense is not murder by any sane definition. If you think that bedrock principle, agreed on by every culture throughout history and by all evidence, pre-history, is wrong you have to come up with an actual reason, not a ridiculous accusation that everybody who doesn't agree with your extreme minority position is "rationalizing".

Originally posted by no1marauder
You can change the meaning of words if you please, but the standard definition of murder is illegal, deliberate killing. Your sanctimonious tripe aside, killing in self-defense is not murder by any sane definition. If you think that bedrock principle, agreed on by every culture throughout history and by all evidence, pre-history, is wrong you have to com ...[text shortened]... tion that everybody who doesn't agree with your extreme minority position is "rationalizing".

Let's face it, the "legal system" is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at a justice system. Your points only serve to underscore the continued immaturity of the human race. This is what is insane.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]"I ask God's forgiveness every day."

You might want to consider repenting first. War is murder.[/b]

Who promoted you to God?

Originally posted by slimjim
Who promoted you to God?

No promotion necessary. I'm just suggesting you rethink your position instead of hanging on to the propaganda that was instilled in you as a youth.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
No promotion necessary. I'm just suggesting you rethink your position instead of hanging on to the propaganda that was instilled in you as a youth.

Propaganda? WTF are you talking about?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Let's face it, the "legal system" is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at a justice system. Your points only serve to underscore the continued immaturity of the human race. This is what is insane.

What I find pathetic is your position, which is based on nothing more than your own eccentric beliefs. Apparently you have no coherent reasoning behind them and must resort to calling others "pathetic" or "insane" or "immature" rather than justifying your beliefs with an actual argument.

I don't find legal systems (for the most part) "pathetic" or "insane". Why exactly do you?

Originally posted by slimjim
Propaganda? WTF are you talking about?

Whatever spin that was put on the following: "duty to your country", "your country is on the side of right", "the lives of your countrymen are more valuable", etc.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What I find pathetic is your position, which is based on nothing more than your own eccentric beliefs. Apparently you have no coherent reasoning behind them and must resort to calling others "pathetic" or "insane" or "immature" rather than justifying your beliefs with an actual argument.

I don't find legal systems (for the most part) "pathetic" or "insane". Why exactly do you?

You're funny. Who resorted to phrases such as "sanctimonious tripe", "sane definition", "ridiculous accusations", etc.? I guess I could have phrased it as "resort to calling others" for effect, but it would be no more correct than when you did.

Ostensibly the "legal system" is about "justice". From what I can tell, it's more about "winning", "expedience", "protocol", etc. It's pretty sorry.

Re-read my post. I didn't call the legal system "insane". What I called insane "was the continued immaturity of the human race."

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
You soldiers were sick.

Clinically, many of them undoubtedly were.

South African regular troops fighting across the borders underwent similar trauma and committed unspeakable acts. I've met many with residual psychological problems. It's in the nature of war.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You're funny. Who resorted to phrases such as "sanctimonious tripe", "sane definition", "ridiculous accusations", etc.? I guess I could have phrased it as "resort to calling others" for effect, but it would be no more correct than when you did.

Ostensibly the "legal system" is about "justice". From what I can tell, it's more about "winning", "ex What I called insane "was the continued immaturity of the human race."

I'm still waiting for an actual argument in support of your position i.e. that killing in self-defense is murder. Do you have one?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Clinically, many of them undoubtedly were.

South African regular troops fighting across the borders underwent similar trauma and committed unspeakable acts. I've met many with residual psychological problems. It's in the nature of war.

Being required to kill your fellow human beings is never psychologically healthy for Man, a social, emphatic animal. The most just war is still a ghastly tragedy for those who fight it and are affected by it.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm still waiting for an actual argument in support of your position i.e. that killing in self-defense is murder. Do you have one?

Is this what your previous post was about? It seemed to be about many things other than this.

Someone once said, "The most just war is still a ghastly tragedy for those who fight it and are affected by it."

You might want to consider that perhaps this is because no war is "just". It's just foolishness. Invariably both sides believe that they are in the right. The reality is that neither are. The human race has been running on this treadmill for long enough.

BTW, you might want to consider that your argument pretty much boils down to "That's the way it's always been done."