Seize the oligarchs wealth...

@medullah said
They are getting their hard currency through energy deals with Germany

and the US

@wildgrass said
Take the overseas assets of the oligarchs, impose travel restrictions on them,

This seems like a simple solution that hasn't been done yet. Are the super-elite wealthy in Europe and US preventing governments from taking these actions?

We're blocking SWIFT......
This is a game changer
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-announces-russia-sanctions-u-221453621.html

@wildgrass said
Take the overseas assets of the oligarchs, impose travel restrictions on them,

This seems like a simple solution that hasn't been done yet. Are the super-elite wealthy in Europe and US preventing governments from taking these actions?

Well, the tory party (UK) is in cahoots with rich Russian donors…

But one more Boris scandal won’t make a difference.

@jimm619 said
Canceled that deal...
China has no 'hard currency.'
https://www.businessinsider.com/germany-axes-controversial-nord-stream-pipeline-putin-sent-troops-ukraine-2022-2?op=1
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/22/germany-halts-certification-of-nord-stream-2-amid-russia-ukraine-crisis.html

That is not rally true. There is still the majroity of gas imports from Russia. Nordstream 2 would mainly have cut Poland/Ukarine from getting a share of the profit.

@wildgrass said
Take the overseas assets of the oligarchs, impose travel restrictions on them,

This seems like a simple solution that hasn't been done yet. Are the super-elite wealthy in Europe and US preventing governments from taking these actions?

Does being a rich person from Country A, the government of which takes actions which Countries B-Z find objectionable, justify Countries B-Z seizing your assets?

@no1marauder said
Does being a rich person from Country A, the government of which takes actions which Countries B-Z find objectionable, justify Countries B-Z seizing your assets?

yes

a poor person from country A is sent to die in said country war.
a poor person from country B (i consider the country being invaded by A being the first country to find said "action" objectionable) is at high risk of dying in said war.
a rich person from country B is probably going to lose a lot of money in said war when A bombs their business (if they manage to avoid dying)
Countries C-Z might sacrifice little or much to help refugees from B.

The rich oligarchs from Country A who prop up Country A's borderline dictator should in fact suffer for the war they support, either directly or passively.


Also, i greatly enjoyed your joke calling an unprovoked invasion of a sovereig nation an "action which other countries find objectionable".

@no1marauder said
Does being a rich person from Country A, the government of which takes actions which Countries B-Z find objectionable, justify Countries B-Z seizing your assets?

Yeah I think if "takes objectionable actions" is unprovoked war on a democracy, the free world should be doing whatever is necessary to disincentivize that in the future.

@zahlanzi said
yes

a poor person from country A is sent to die in said country war.
a poor person from country B (i consider the country being invaded by A being the first country to find said "action" objectionable) is at high risk of dying in said war.
a rich person from country B is probably going to lose a lot of money in said war when A bombs their business (if they manage to av ...[text shortened]... ng an unprovoked invasion of a sovereig nation an "action which other countries find objectionable".

Osama Bin Laden said it was OK to kill civilians in Western, democratic countries because they had voted in the governments that were engaging in oppression and violence against members of Islam.

Do you accept that related, albeit more deadly, rationale as well?

Israel bulldozes the houses of suicide bombers rendering their surviving families homeless. Also justified?

@wildgrass said
Yeah I think if "takes objectionable actions" is unprovoked war on a democracy, the free world should be doing whatever is necessary to disincentivize that in the future.

What limits, if any, do you place on "whatever is necessary"?

Describing what is happening as a "war on democracy" is histrionic at best.

@no1marauder said
What limits, if any, do you place on "whatever is necessary"?

Describing what is happening as a "war on democracy" is histrionic at best.

I didn't mean to wade deep in the global politics debate, but the oligarchs are in a position to change Russia's behavior, and they parked their money in countries that decisively oppose what Russia is doing. Seizing foreign assets might prevent further escalation of this war and we won't even need to fuel up the F-35s.
Regarding "war on democracy" I think (again I'm not the expert) very smart people have written logical opinions in support of that argument... e.g.

Let us not forget what it was that enraged Putin and led him to invade Ukraine for the first time in 2014. It was not a Ukrainian declaration to seek NATO membership; it was the efforts of the Kyiv government (a pro-Russian government at the time) to finalize an “association agreement” with the European Union. When the president of Ukraine ultimately balked at this deal — under pressure from Russia — he was greeted by massive street protests, and the parliament voted him out of office. That is what triggered Putin’s first invasion of Ukraine.... Putin's reaction now is bloody, brutal effort to stem the tide of democracy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/24/putin-invasion-ukraine-shows-why-liberal-democracy-worth-defending/

@wildgrass said
I didn't mean to wade deep in the global politics debate, but the oligarchs are in a position to change Russia's behavior, and they parked their money in countries that decisively oppose what Russia is doing. Seizing foreign assets might prevent further escalation of this war and we won't even need to fuel up the F-35s.
Regarding "war on democracy" I think (again I'm not t ...[text shortened]... gtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/24/putin-invasion-ukraine-shows-why-liberal-democracy-worth-defending/

That is hardly an accurate account of what happened in the Ukraine in 2014; it was an illegal coup of an elected President who happened to be too "pro-Russian" for certain Ukrainians and the West.

It's highly unlikely any sanctions against rich Russians is going to cause the Russian government to suddenly end its invasion of the Ukraine, but even if it was plausible, these people are not directly to blame for the government's actions and it is morally repugnant to punish them for it.

@no1marauder said
That is hardly an accurate account of what happened in the Ukraine in 2014; it was an illegal coup of an elected President who happened to be too "pro-Russian" for certain Ukrainians and the West.

It's highly unlikely any sanctions against rich Russians is going to cause the Russian government to suddenly end its invasion of the Ukraine, but even if it was plausible, ...[text shortened]... ot directly to blame for the government's actions and it is morally repugnant to punish them for it.

It's an inaccurate account because it doesn't use the word "illegal" to describe 2014? They overthrew their government. That's obviously illegal.

There's a bunch of other news sources saying the same thing. War on democracy.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is part of a broader test: whether the global erosion of democracy will continue unchecked.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/briefing/putin-democracy-ukraine.html

He is threatening to invade Ukraine because he wants democracy to fail—and not just in that country.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukraine-democracy/621465/

What happens next in Ukraine has implications for democracy's survival worldwide

https://hub.jhu.edu/2022/02/24/ukraine-struggle-for-democracy/

Is all of this histrionics?

@no1marauder said
Does being a rich person from Country A, the government of which takes actions which Countries B-Z find objectionable, justify Countries B-Z seizing your assets?

Yes, just as with The RICO
Statutes......Treat them as you
would a criminal enterprise.

@wildgrass said
It's an inaccurate account because it doesn't use the word "illegal" to describe 2014? They overthrew their government. That's obviously illegal.

There's a bunch of other news sources saying the same thing. War on democracy.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is part of a broader test: whether the global erosion of democracy will continue unchecked.

https://w ...[text shortened]... uote]
https://hub.jhu.edu/2022/02/24/ukraine-struggle-for-democracy/

Is all of this histrionics?

Those are all opinion pieces and yes they are histrionic.

There were legal means to remove Ukraine's President but they were not followed.

@jimm619 said
Yes, just as with The RICO
Statutes......Treat them as you
would a criminal enterprise.

Is a rich person (or any person for that matter) from Country A part of a "criminal enterprise" because Country A does something contrary to international law?

That's a pretty far reaching concept.