20 Oct 22
@vivify saidActually for a substantial part of that thousand years, large parts of Europe (Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia, most of the territories that later formed Yugoslavia, parts of Hungary) were ruled, with considerable cruelty, by the "non-white" Ottoman empire.
Since only white men were seen fit to be European leaders for at least a millennia, non-white men at the top is quite noteworthy.
As for the rest of Europe, for the vast majority of that thousand years, the number of non-white people was vanishingly small. This was the case until about 1950, when large-scale immigration to Europe began. As recently as the early 1980s, more than 95% of the British population was white, and people of colour were disproportionate concentrated among younger demographics (i.e., people not yet of an age to occupy senior political positions). Really substantial immigration to this country didn't start until the New Labour administration, i.e., post-1997.
In sum, it doesn't really surprise me that it taken this long to get a substantial number of people of colour into the cabinet.
21 Oct 22
@teinosuke saidI’m surprised you didn’t have more colonials like Indians
Actually for a substantial part of that thousand years, large parts of Europe (Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia, most of the territories that later formed Yugoslavia, parts of Hungary) were ruled, with considerable cruelty, by the "non-white" Ottoman empire.
As for the rest of Europe, for the vast majority of that thousand years, the number of non-white people was vanis ...[text shortened]... urprise me that it taken this long to get a substantial number of people of colour into the cabinet.
21 Oct 22
@lundos saidTruss was clearly unfit for such high office. That the Tories did not see that shows that the Tory Party already had one foot in the grave.
But some achievements she made:
1) Buried the Queen
2) Buried the Pound
3) Buried the Tory Party
She probably buried the Tories' chances in the next GE. Labour could win now even if they ran a reality tv show host. <Smirk smirk.>
@moonbus saidPolitics in a democracy seem to be more about electability rather than merit. You can be the smartest, most intelligent, most honest and upstanding person for the job but if you don't have an interesting personality, you won't get elected.
Truss was clearly unfit for such high office. That the Tories did not see that shows that the Tory Party already had one foot in the grave.
She probably buried the Tories' chances in the next GE. Labour could win now even if they ran a reality tv show host. <Smirk smirk.>
We scratch our heads at how obviously unfit demagogues manage to win elections but human beings are far less logical than we're willing to admit.
I'm not sure what the Tories saw in Truss but they believed she had a relatability that could win elections in spite of any glaring flaws. Just like with Boris Johnson who (prior to the election) knew how to have a rapport with the public.
21 Oct 22
@vivify saidThat’s because you are observing and commenting without knowledge or understanding.
I wonder why they don't select Jeremy Hunt.
21 Oct 22
@vivify saidWell that just shows the peculiarity of the political system in the UK. Truss wasn’t elected PM by the voting public.
Politics in a democracy seem to be more about electability rather than merit. You can be the smartest, most intelligent, most honest and upstanding person for the job but if you don't have an interesting personality, you won't get elected.
We scratch our heads at how obviously unfit demagogues manage to win elections but human beings are far less logical than we're willi ...[text shortened]... Just like with Boris Johnson who (prior to the election) knew how to have a rapport with the public.
@vivify saidIt was mainly sullied by the fact that they were all fiscally ultra right wing aholes. Nothing to do with their skin colour, just aholes.
interestingly, Liz Truss' start as PM was the first time that there were no white men in any of the UK's five most important positions.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-06/truss-s-uk-cabinet-is-first-with-no-white-men-in-biggest-jobs
- The PM was a woman
- Kwasi Kwarteng as Chancellor of the Exchequer, making him Britain’s first Black finance minister. ...[text shortened]... storic period had to be so incredibly sullied by the Queen's death followed by the PM's resignation.
Oh and Liz is a halfwit, that didn’t help either.
21 Oct 22
2 edits
@moonbus saidWell of course, she took over when Boris resigned just like Boris was selected by MPs after May resigned The point remains that they were seen by their party as viable candidates for when the next election did come.
Well that just shows the peculiarity of the political system in the UK. Truss wasn’t elected PM by the voting public.
@vivify saidI think the common denominator here is the conservative members outside of parliament, they ultimately put Boris and Liz in Downing Street. Maybe they should stop asking unqualified ideologically blinded punters in the shires who should run an actual country.
Well of course, she took over when Boris resigned just like Boris was selected by MPs after May resigned The point remains that they were seen as viable candidates for when the next election did come.
21 Oct 22
@vivify saidWhich shows how disconnected the Tory party is. Hey, reality check!
Well of course, she took over when Boris resigned just like Boris was selected by MPs after May resigned The point remains that they were seen by their party as viable candidates for when the next election did come.
@vivify
Politics in a democracy seem to be more about electability rather than merit. You can be the smartest, most intelligent, most honest and upstanding person for the job but if you don't have an interesting personality, you won't get elected.
---------------------------
Agreed, and I think such people are what makes up the deep state/shadow government - wannabe's but can't'be's.
Example: Henry Kissinger. Was Nixon's Secretary of State. And he has been in Washington ever since.
Just an opinion.
@moonbus saidIt's not really a peculiar system. In this country we vote for a party, not for Prime Minister, and give that party a mandate for a maximum of five years. The leader of the party that has the numbers to form a government becomes Prime Minister.
Well that just shows the peculiarity of the political system in the UK. Truss wasn’t elected PM by the voting public.
It's actually quite a new thing for the Conservative Party to hold leadership elections at all. Traditionally (up until the mid-1960s), when one Tory leader resigned, the new one would "emerge" after discussion among senior party figures. This happened in 1955 when Eden succeeded Churchill, in 1957 when Macmillan succeeded Eden, and in 1963 when Hume succeeded Macmillan. In no case was it assumed that a general election should follow, although Eden did in fact call one (a year and a half before he had to) shortly after taking power, judging correctly that he could secure an increased majority. Macmillan, by contrast waited for nearly three years; having become premier in January 1957, he didn't call an election until October 1959.
From 1965 onwards, Tory leaders began to be elected, but even then, they were chosen by the parliamentary Conservative Party only (not by the wider party membership). When the Conservatives were in government, this meant a change in PM would happen with the approval of sitting Tory MPs only. This made sense, because the PM has to be able to command the confidence of parliament. It happened in 1990, when Thatcher was replaced by Major after an election within the parliamentary Conservative Party. Again, nobody expected a general election to follow, and there was no public vote until 1992.
Since the rules were changed to allow ordinary party members a say, we've had the strange spectacle of Tory MPs having to serve under a leader who wasn't there first choice.
The basic problem, of course, is the modern personalisation of our politics. There was no reason for Macmillan to call an early election because as Prime Minister he was only "first among equals"; policy decisions would continue to be made by cabinet, as far as possible in accordance with the promises made in the Conservative Party's 1955 manifesto on which they had been elected.
Nowadays, as seen when Johnson took over from May and when Truss took over from Johnson, a change in PM can lead to drastic changes in policy. The hardcore libertarian mini-budget offered by Truss and her quasi-Chancellor Kwarteng had no mandate in the 2019 manifesto on the basis of which the Tories were elected. Nor had any such policies been announced in the Queen's Speech (delivered in her absence by the then Prince of Wales) in May of this year. This is really not how our parliamentary democracy is supposed to function.