27 May 08
Originally posted by JigtieYes, I did think of Ancient Greece when making my post. It was a democracy up to a point and I guess it's a matter of degrees. Only the privileged class got to vote in Athens. In the US and other modern Western democracies, certain classes only gained the vote over time -- women, ethnic minorities, people who don't own property. Persons aged under 18 still don't get to vote. But still, I think overall we're fairly close to being democracies and that the Enlightenment scholars, and then the Founding Fathers of the US, introduced democratic principles which subsequently led to slavery being banned and then women and ethnic minorities gaining the vote.
What's Athens got to do with this?
27 May 08
Originally posted by GoatboysrevengeUnited states may be the most diverse thinking country in the world, and anyone who generalizes about us is ignorant.
America your head's too big, Because America, Your belly is too big. And I love you, I just wish you'd stay where you belong
In America, The land of the free, they said, And of opportunity, In a just and a truthful way.
But where the president, is never black, female or gay, and until that day,
you've got nothing to say to me, to help me believe ...[text shortened]... eign policy which promotes war and 'pre-emptive' action without necessary provocation.
Take the criticism about US' aggressive activities and milatary activities around the globe: What % Americans support this type of role? The answer suprises most non-Americans. What is Bush's approval rating?
In US, the only thing you can generalize about is that on any one major issue, there is a huge variety of opinions about it, and many of them expressed extremely passionately. What is great about American is exactly that wide range of beliefs, and the freedom to express and debate them.
Here is another thing (entirely differnet point though) about America: Who gives the most foreign financial aid, and by how much more than the #2 country? If a country needs help, who can be absolutley depended on to come to help, with an enormous amount of money and other help?
27 May 08
Originally posted by impatientYou are too impatient with your little friend there, mr.
United states may be the most diverse thinking country in the world, and anyone who generalizes about us is ignorant.
Take the criticism about US' aggressive activities and milatary activities around the globe: What % Americans support this type of role? The answer suprises most non-Americans. What is Bush's approval rating?
In US, the only ...[text shortened]... an be absolutley depended on to come to help, with an enormous amount of money and other help?
USA’s aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP has almost always been
lower than any other industrialized nation in the world, though
paradoxically since 2000, their dollar amount has been the highest.
(Only since 2004 have they moved up from last place, by just one or
two places.)
Maybe it's not the amount of money you throw at a problem, but under
which conditions you choose to do so. The idea of world aid is to
help people in another part of the world better their own conditions
without asking for anything in return (that includes loans with interest or
trying to control their market). What you do get in return is a more stable
world where trade conditions can flourish and you need not hear about
people here and there starving to death (something so horrible to
imagine that we really can't do it until we get it thrown in our faces I
suppose).
Sources:
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
http://www.poverty.com/internationalaid.html
http://www.oecd.org/pages/0,3417,en_36734052_36734103_1_1_1_1_1,00.html
27 May 08
Originally posted by karnachzQuite right. But calling United States the first democracy of the world
Yes, I did think of Ancient Greece when making my post. It was a democracy up to a point and I guess it's a matter of degrees. Only the privileged class got to vote in Athens. In the US and other modern Western democracies, certain classes only gained the vote over time -- women, ethnic minorities, people who don't own property. Persons aged under 18 still ...[text shortened]... sequently led to slavery being banned and then women and ethnic minorities gaining the vote.
because it was slightly better than greece in its time is not very accurate
in my book. I've heard US been described as the first liberal democracy,
and that may well be true, but I think we'll have to wait with pointing out
the first real democracy of the world unless we can accept athens as the
first.
Ancient greece supported the basic concept of a democracy - public
election of government officials. They were the inventors of it, after all.
But a democracy means so much more (at least to me). Such as the
majority not being able to run all over the given rights of the minorities,
and government officials not being able to reach their power through
economical means and expensive campaigns, but through the actual
content of what they have to say and what they've shown they can do.
I think we'll have to wait some time before such a democracy is actually
possible. To me, the whole point of a democracy is to give power to the
people, and that selected officials can themselves be very much a part of
the people and not only some privileged elite.
27 May 08
Originally posted by JigtieThe fact that you choose only to respond to only the minor side point I made is interesting, and your entire point is unclear, and seems to make some substantial assumptions.
You are too impatient with your little friend there, mr.
[quote][i]
USA’s aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP has almost always been
lower than any other industrialized nation in the world, though
paradoxically since 2000, their dollar amount has been the highest.
[b](Only since 2004 have they moved up from last place, by just one or
two pla ...[text shortened]... internationalaid.html
http://www.oecd.org/pages/0,3417,en_36734052_36734103_1_1_1_1_1,00.html
28 May 08
Originally posted by impatientI responded to the part that I felt required a respons. The rest I agree with,
The fact that you choose only to respond to only the minor side point I made is interesting, and your entire point is unclear, and seems to make some substantial assumptions.
and it's a complete waste of space saying you agree with someone in a
debate, wouldn't you agree?
28 May 08
2 edits
Originally posted by impatientAgain, you're way too trigger happy. Of course he is factually correct. I
Someone hailing from Indonesia can say that? I guess we know why they call marijuana "dope"!
Also factually not even in the ballpark.
refer to a link I posted above, reposted for your convenience:
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
If you scroll down a bit you'll find two charts. One shows the "Net
ODA in 2007 as percent of GNI", and the other shows the "Net ODA in
2007 as US dollar amounts (millions)". In the first, the US is at the rock
bottom. In the second, the US is at the top. So both of you are correct,
but you're both not looking at the bigger picture. I don't think it's
really the amount you give away, or how much of what you've got you're
giving away. It's where the money goes. I'm personally a bit fuzzy
on that. I have no idea how well the money is put to use. I do believe
there are millions from EU unaccounted for, for some reason, and that's
scary.
28 May 08
Here is another thing (entirely differnet point though) about America: Who gives the most foreign financial aid, and by how much more than the #2 country? If a country needs help, who can be absolutley depended on to come to help, with an enormous amount of money and other help?[/b]And where does that money go precisely? Egypt and Israel being the two main beneficiaries of that aid, 1/3 OF ALL U.S. AID went to Egypt and Israel in 2006.
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm
And it also depends on what religion you are apparently...As long as you are a christian it's OK, but if you're not, do you starve or convert??
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/10/08/bush_brings_faith_to_foreign_aid/
And any aid can depend on what you can do for American business, and foreign strategic interests...So it's not really aid is it??
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#AidMoneyOftenTiedtoVariousRestrictiveConditions
28 May 08
1 edit
Originally posted by impatientSomeone from Indonesia can say whatever she likes, surely? And I said this: "USA gives the least in comparison to its GDP out of all developed countries." Turns out that someone else provided the link that backs it up. A little apology for your patronizing xenophobia would be appreciated. As for being wrong about the U.S.'s "generosity", who cares? Perhaps it's just a concrete example of of what you describe as your "most diverse thinking [...] in the world".
Someone hailing from Indonesia can say that?
"...two charts. One shows the "Net ODA in 2007 as percent of GNI", and the other shows the "Net ODA in 2007 as US dollar amounts (millions)". In the first, the US is at the rock bottom...."
28 May 08
Originally posted by karnachzI WISH the USA was a democracy--sadly we are a fake democracy. We're a republic, and that ain't no democracy; it's a bunch of rich guys running things and making sure the masses do NOT get a real democracy of "one person, one vote, majority rules".
Yes, I did think of Ancient Greece when making my post. It was a democracy up to a point and I guess it's a matter of degrees. Only the privileged class got to vote in Athens. In the US and other modern Western democracies, certain classes only gained the vote over time -- women, ethnic minorities, people who don't own property. Persons aged under 18 still ...[text shortened]... sequently led to slavery being banned and then women and ethnic minorities gaining the vote.