Debates
20 Jan 05
22 Jan 05
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The bible has a lot of truth in it. The real thing that must be accomplished by every person alive is to learn that "a lot of truth" is truth that applies to it's time and place. "a lot of truth" applies to many needs, but not all.
"A Lot" is a term that measures a mind state.
To some minds, a "lot" is meaningless. See our favorite sewer rat.
To others, it means God. See mr. hill and others.
To me, "a lot" is where I framed all those damned houses.
22 Jan 05
Originally posted by AThousandYoungYou asked. Why?
According to The Catholic Study Bible/New American Bible Matthew 10:37-39 are "the conditions of discipleship." Why would I want to be his disciple? Why would anyone?
I would want to because:
1 - The supposed teachings of Christ always gives the benefit of the doubt to the accused.
2 - The supposed teachings of christ always gives mercy to the afflicted.
3 - The supposed teachings of Christ always supposes the best in man.
That is why I would want to follow and teach.
Why would you reject such obvious goodness? That is the better quesion.
22 Jan 05
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI would reject being a disciple of Jesus because I can embrace those virtues without making bizaare and outrageous claims about gods and magic.
You asked. Why?
I would want to because:
1 - The supposed teachings of Christ always gives the benefit of the doubt to the accused.
2 - The supposed teachings of christ always gives mercy to the afflicted.
3 - The supposed teachings of Christ always supposes the best in man.
That is why I would want to follow and teach.
Why would you reject such obvious goodness? That is the better quesion.
22 Jan 05
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Originally posted by AThousandYoungyes. Right. We have all heard of you. And your teachings. They are pretty damned marvelous.
I would reject being a disciple of Jesus because I can embrace those virtues without making bizaare and outrageous claims about gods and magic.
The problem is that you are not a myth.
He is.
Sigh...
Which do we believe and study? That which has managed to survive two thousand years or a prick? Who has never had an original thought?
22 Jan 05
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Originally posted by StarValleyWyBelieve in what makes sense. Study everything that you are interested in.
yes. Right. We have all heard of you. And your teachings. They are pretty damned marvelous.
The problem is that you are not a myth.
He is.
Sigh...
Which do we believe and study? That which has managed to survive two thousand years or a prick? Who has never had an original thought?
I never said anything about worshipping me, believing me, or studying me. People don't need to have a master or guru to be disciples of. People can think for themselves. If they do so, they can separate that which is of value from that which is not in anyone's teaching.
By the way, atheist, who the hell are you to talk down to me on this issue? You aren't a disciple of Jesus.
22 Jan 05
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWell said.
Believe in what makes sense. Study everything that you are interested in.
I never said anything about worshipping me, believing me, or studying me. People don't need to have a master or guru to be disciples of. People can think for themselves. If they do so, they can separate that which is of value from that which is not in anyone's teaching. ...[text shortened]... atheist, who the hell are you to talk down to me on this issue? You aren't a disciple of Jesus.
Truth.
So why then insist on not thinking it through on your own? In just spouting the evil you have been taught?
This is meant for STANG by the way. The same principles apply.
22 Jan 05
Originally posted by StarValleyWyYour post is not meant for me? Or is it? It seems to be...I guess you mean it for both of us.
Well said.
Truth.
So why then insist on not thinking it through on your own? In just spouting the evil you have been taught?
This is meant for STANG by the way. The same principles apply.
Why insist on not thinking what through on my own? I don't understand you. What evil am I spouting, and what makes you think someone taught it to me?
What are you talking about?
22 Jan 05
Originally posted by AThousandYoungOk. At least you care enough to reply.
Your post is not meant for me? Or is it? It seems to be...I guess you mean it for both of us.
Why insist on not thinking what through on my own? I don't understand you. What evil am I spouting, and what makes you think someone taught it to me?
What are you talking about?
Maybe my use of "evil" was wrong.
The point is that I was replying to you. only you.
My point is that to claim "absolute truth or knowledge" is silly. Not the most noble of preachers... or the pope... or Einstein can do that.
I was using "ironic and sarcatic" retort to encourage you to think of your absolute positions.
God is gone. He came. He built. He left.
so? Don't be afaid of it. Embrace it. You and I are smart enough to know that "IF" God had intent in designing us, he also trusted us to be natural. So. Be natural. If you follow God, then be good. As you know good.
For what it's worth.
30 Jan 05
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Why would I want to be his disciple?
You wouldn't.
Why would anyone?
I can't answer for just anyone, but I know why I want to be His disciple.
By the way, if you do not think Him worthy of being your master, why should you care whether He thinks you worthy of being His servant?
30 Jan 05
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Originally posted by huntingbearI remember a time, years ago, when a painter friend of mine and I discussed the possibility of the 'accidental mystic'. The accidental mystic, as we understood it, would be a person that through devotion to service and compassion ended up transcending his own ego (or, if you prefer, becoming 'meek in spirit'😉. We imagined that this might be possible even though the person in question had had no formal instruction in, or even acquaintance with, mystical traditions.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
[b]Why would I want to be his disciple?
You wouldn't.
Why would anyone?
I can't answer for just anyone, but I know why I want to be His disciple.
By the way, if ...[text shortened]... should you care whether He thinks you worthy of being His servant?[/b]
What I want to know is this: do you think it possible that there could exist a Christian analogue of our 'accidental mystic'? That is, do you think it possible that there could exist the 'accidental disciple', a person that embodies everything Christ had taught, despite being unfamiliar with Christ or Christian doctrine generally? If such embodiment is possible, do you think it would be sufficient for salvation?
30 Jan 05
Originally posted by bbarrOoh, this is going to be a good discussion!
I remember a time, years ago, when a painter friend of mine and I discussed the possibility of the 'accidental mystic'. The accidental mystic, as we understood it, would be a person that through devotion to service and compassion ended up transcending his own ego (or, if you prefer, becoming 'meek in spirit'😉. We imagined that this might be possible even ...[text shortened]... e generally? If such embodiment is possible, do you think it would be sufficient for salvation?
I need to get the kids up for their nap and ready for the evening church service. I'll be back!
30 Jan 05
Originally posted by huntingbearExcellent. This is why you are one of my favorites. I'd rather think about and discuss this topic than continue to rehearse the same arguments for, and refute the same arguments against the permissibility of early abortion. I await your return.
Ooh, this is going to be a good discussion!
I need to get the kids up for their nap and ready for the evening church service. I'll be back!
30 Jan 05
Originally posted by bbarrYes, and yes. I am not great at explaining or quoting ver batim the many tomes of knowledge that exist in our world, but I believe that a person of true merit is worthy of salvation. Those that love and help those around them. Those that do no harm would have to be the ones of whom you speak.
I remember a time, years ago, when a painter friend of mine and I discussed the possibility of the 'accidental mystic'. The accidental mystic, as we understood it, would be a person that through devotion to service and compassion ended up transcending his own ego (or, if you prefer, becoming 'meek in spirit'😉. We imagined that this might be possible even ...[text shortened]... e generally? If such embodiment is possible, do you think it would be sufficient for salvation?
Somewhere in some rainforst there must be a person who is gentle and seeks only to help others, maybe they have a gift for this. The village likes them. They like the village. They are always ready to help because in thier mind that is the way it should be. They do not seek war or fights and will avoid conflict or paths that would lead to destruction. They live simply as a celebration of thier own life. They teach when it would be easier to critisize. They help when it would be easier to walk past. They give advice even when they know it will fall on deaf ears, because there's a chance that one day it may finnally sink in. They are saints, and they may not even have an understanding of God beyond what we would call a primitive belief. I think they would deserve salvation.
Nyxie