It's christmas time, so I thought that I would open this can of worms.
I don't think christmas has anything to do with Christ.
First off, it was a pagan holiday long before Christ was born. When the Romans converted to christianity, the people already had a huge holiday that they enjoyed celebrating every December. To facilitate converting people, it was easier to declare December 25th as the birth of christ rather than get rid of a major holiday.
This helps explain how nearly every religion has their biggest holiday around the same time.
Second, St.Nick is made out to be a person that knows who is naughty and who is nice (kind of like a god, eh?) and can visit each house in one night (omnipresent, like a god again, eh?) and rewards and punishes those deserving (and he's not a false god, why?) and we put pictures and statues of him all over (idoltry, like a god, eh?).
This goes directly against the bible- If this is the birth of christ, then why are we celebrating it by performing massive acts of sacreligion?
Third, Christmas is blantently a bastardization of Christ's Mass. and it's not sacreligion why?
If Christmas is a christian holiday, it would be very easy to see that the traditions were created by the devil to defame Christ.
Instead of just wearing a "Jesus is the reason" pin, shouldn't all of you christians be telling your kids that Santa is not bringing presents because he's a false god?
Ok, let's here arguments from both sides..
90 percent of Americans are familiar with "the reason of the season" — the Christian faith's commemoration of the birth of Jesus — and three out of four Americans say there is not enough emphasis on the religious basis for the holiday.
Yet there is no peace on earth or good will toward men for the Scrooges who say "bah, humbug" to Christmas.
Originally posted by wolfbynyteI agree. I celebrate it as a day to celebrate good will torwards each other, to give without reason to friends and family, to take a break from our daily lives and stop to enjoy the company of others in our lives. "Stop and smell the roses" so to speak.
Christmas in America is both a religious and a secular holiday. Christians can celebrate the religious meaning, non-Christians can enjoy the secular aspects. There should not be any conflict there, and there isn't for the overwhelming majority of Americans, Christian or not.
I agree with having a holiday. But I think to say that we are doing it for Christ and to go to church for it is just ridiculous.
Another example, what does the tree in your living room have to do with Christ? Stolen from another religion and incorporated into Christmas...more sacrelige....
Originally posted by Saint NickI'm not sure how the tree came into the picture, however, I know in my family we spend that day with each other, enjoying a day together. We are happy and at peace. I think we are living, "that day" the way God agrees with. We don't praise the tree, for us it's a symbol of giving, not only presents but our time. Giving time that we take for granted.
I agree with having a holiday. But I think to say that we are doing it for Christ and to go to church for it is just ridiculous.
Another example, what does the tree in your living room have to do with Christ? Stolen from another religion and incorporated into Christmas...more sacrelige....
To quote you, "smell the roses"
This is the season where we celebrate one who was born around the 25th of December of a virgin. He whose words can be found on a Vatican wall which says "unless you drink of my blood and eat of my flesh you cannot be with me in the next world". He whose ascension into the heavens is yet further evidence of his divinity.
Of course I am referring to Mithranism, a religion founded in 300 B.C.
The Romans celebrated Saturnalia.
Mithranism was a popular religion at the same time as Christianity.
I am certain that the Christian god said it was okay to "borrow" this and other stories.
In Love there is Life
Angela
Yes, a christmas tree has long been a favorite...
But, for centuries the evergreen tree has symbolized fertility and rebirth. When people worshipped the sun, the would decorate with evergreens during worship in december because they noticed the days were getting shorter (sun going away). Of course, their worship was always successful and the sun was 're-born' on December 22th. When they realized the days were getting longer (sun was coming back), there was much celebration since the mighty sun god had had been appeased and spared their lives. Care to take a guess what day this fell about?
Anyhow, the point is that by putting a christmas tree in your home, you are following the worship of the sun god, thereby taking second and false god before christ. If you're christian, why would you do this?
Originally posted by Saint NickIt would be nice if those that gave without reason would stop trying
I agree. I celebrate it as a day to celebrate good will torwards each other, to give without reason to friends and family, to take a break from our daily lives and stop to enjoy the company of others in our lives. "Stop and smell the roses" so to speak.
I agree with having a holiday. But I think to say that we are doing it for Christ and to go to chu ...[text shortened]... with Christ? Stolen from another religion and incorporated into Christmas...more sacrelige....
to remove the reason for giving from those that acknowledge they
have a reason for the season. Seems simple enough for me, it would
be nice to go through this time of year without the grinding and
nashing of teeth over those things that remind others they live among
people of faith. Who cares why someone has a tree up, who really
cares what each person calls their tree, what does it matter?
Kelly
From the mid-seventeenth century on the Christmas tree slowly grew in popularity and use. However, it was not until the beginning of the 19th century that the use of the Christmas tree grew into the general German custom that it is today. Also at this time it spread to the Slavic people of eastern Europe. The Christmas tree was probably first used in America about 1700 when the first wave of German immigration settled in western Pennsylvania.
For many Christians the Christmas tree still retains the symbolism of the Paradise tree. The tree reminds us of the tree in Eden by which Adam and Eve were overcome and which thrust them into sin. But more importantly, the tree reminds us of the tree by which our sin was overcome, namely the tree upon which Christ Jesus was crucified. Is it a stretch to refer to the cross as a tree? Hardly, for this is the language of the New Testament itself! For example, Paul writes in Galatians 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree" (quoting Deut. 21:23). And Peter writes, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." Therefore, the Christmas tree is a wonderful symbol and reminder of our salvation and forgiveness through Jesus Christ!
Originally posted by WulebgrI read several reasons why He was born in the summer as well. I
X-mas became a Christian holiday as missionaries and Christian States suppressed the ancient winter solstice celebrations. It is a mix of several traditions--many pagan in origin--but capitalism has almost restored it to the people.
Jesus was born in August, 4 B.C.E.
don't think it is a big deal the actual date, for me it is enough to
know He was born and who He was, the date adds nothing or takes
nothing away from anything in my opinion.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJaySaint Nick Saint Nick... SMD.
I read several reasons why He was born in the summer as well. I
don't think it is a big deal the actual date, for me it is enough to
know He was born and who He was, the date adds nothing or takes
nothing away from anything in my opinion.
Kelly
Originally posted by TexasCowboyWell, I might be a saint, but I'm not familiar with "SMD" 🙄
Saint Nick Saint Nick... SMD.
KellyJay, Like I said, I greatly enjoy the holiday season and think it is wonderful. At the same time I think it is blantently false to say "Jesus was born on December 25th, that's why we put up a tree and Santa comes".
I specifcally dislike corporations pushing these things on me to get rich while I get poor. I also disagree with some of the church's opinion that "if you don't come to mass on christmas eve or christmas day, then you'll go to hell"
Originally posted by wolfbynyteWell, the first paragraph is how the tradition moved around. True enough.
From the mid-seventeenth century on the Christmas tree slowly grew in popularity and use. However, it was not until the beginning of the 19th century that the use of the Christmas tree grew into the general German custom that it is today. Also at this time it spread to the Slavic people of eastern Europe. The Christmas tree was probably first used in Amer ...[text shortened]... tree is a wonderful symbol and reminder of our salvation and forgiveness through Jesus Christ!
The second paragraph --I've seen this explanation several times before. From what I have read on the subject, it seems that thiswas an excuse the chrch made up later in order to keep a tradition that had been around long before...
Originally posted by wolfbynyteThe Christmas tree is attributed to St. Boniface who converted the German people to Christianity. Legend has it that when the saint came upon a group of pagans worshipping an oak tree, he cut it down in protest. Much to his astonishment, a tiny fir tree sprang up from its roots. St. Boniface took this as a sign of the eternal truth of Christianity. Fir trees were not brought inside for celebration until the 1700's, however. Thanks to the German, Prince Albert, Queen Victoria introduced the concept of the ornamented Christmas tree to all of England. In 1890, A.F.W. Woolworth brought the idea of the glass ornament tradition to the United States.
[b]I'm not sure how the tree came into the picture,