The Internet and Political Polarization

@vivify said
But there's no way to argue that political polarization is mere perception. Congress votes nearly 100 percent down the red/blue line nearly 100 percent of the time. Response to the global pandemic is split down the line in almost the exactly the same way: conservatives minimize it, liberals take it more seriously.

There's virtually no overlap in political opinions anymo ...[text shortened]... I'm speaking from an American perspective. The divides may not be quite as stark in other nations.

I like your comment about political opinions having become like pie charts rather than Venn diagrams. I remarked recently that you can predict from someone's attitude to the Israel/Palestine situation roughly what they will think about anthropogenic climate change. These are both important issues, but they have nothing really to do with each other, and there shouldn't be any correlation.

I suppose there have always been political postures that have tended to cluster together, and sometimes the logic is more assumed than obvious. I remember way back in the 1990s reading an article by a young woman who wrote that as a schoolgirl she'd been shocked to discover that her left-wing circle of friends - who were all socialists, committed anti-racists, pro-gay rights, etc - were pro-choice. She was opposed to abortion, and thought of herself as supporting the rights of the weak against the strong: she saw herself as being, logically, on the side of the poor, ethnic minorities, sexual minorities, and the unborn. Obviously, the majority of left-wingers didn't see the correlation she did.

But I agree the situation has worsened. I think the polarisation in real-life politics and the polarisation on social media feed off each other. I think the problem is this - when you have a political conversation in private with a friend, you can negotiate. You can put your opinions to them, and talk through areas of disagreement. You can come to some kind of accommodation. And because the conversation was private, it doesn't matter if you other friends approve or disapprove.

On social media, by contrast, you're talking to a whole bunch of people, who know you in different ways, at different levels of closeness, some friends, some family, some professional contacts. Expressing a controversial opinion can swiftly get you ostracised and can affect your career and well-being. So people swiftly learn to tailor their opinions to the ideological norms of their circle. If they have a dissident opinion about anything, they keep it quiet. Very soon, they may learn to switch their opinion to whatever is ideologically acceptable.

@sh76 said
Agree 100%.

Because these debates align into "teams" and of the constant urge to score points, I find myself, despite myself, locking into positions that are harder than I would take in real life.

My experience here is that when I post nuanced, middle-of-the-road thoughtful compromise posts, they're either thread-enders or nobody responds and they skip back to the previous ...[text shortened]... s almost beyond this type of forum.

I'm not blaming you; but it's an example of this phenomenon.

You should keep the debate over your COVID minimization positions ( including your quaint idea that a disease still killing over 10,000 Americans a week is no longer one requiring any public policies that limit its spread) in one of the threads discussing it, including the dozen or so you started fawning over DeSantis' (in)actions.

It's quite strange to be accused of "extremism" when one's consistent position has been to support the policy recommendations of public health officials during a deadly pandemic, however.

@no1marauder said
You should keep the debate over your COVID minimization positions ( including your quaint idea that a disease still killing over 10,000 Americans a week is no longer one requiring any public policies that limit its spread) in one of the threads discussing it, including the dozen or so you started fawning over DeSantis' (in)actions.

It's quite strange to be accused of ...[text shortened]... to support the policy recommendations of public health officials during a deadly pandemic, however.

I welcomed the masks because then people would look at the stupid piece of clothe and question what it does other than teach people to be sheep, it would be the thing that woke them up, it would be the impetus to make them question the bullying and the extreme online views of people such as yourself, people would start to question the inconsistencies from one place to the other. The inconsistent reasons and methods and solutions but the common thread, closeted bullies now had free rein.

As an ex-welder I'm not anti mask, there are circumstances where if a power tripping busy body said don't wear one I would, I'd wear one that fit, there would be no facial hair, if mask zombies were consistent they'd ban facial hair and issue fines for stubble exceeding 1mm. Given a bunch of specific conditions a clothe mask is close to ineffective, the way they're currently used - more harm than good.

Take off your mask you sheep. Don't bow to No1s bullying and his extreme views.

@vivify said
I don't find the bolded part to be true. I do agree the internet plays a heavy role in militarizing, recruiting and encouraging extremists (or potential extremists).

But there's no way to argue that political polarization is mere perception. Congress votes nearly 100 percent down the red/blue line nearly 100 percent of the time. Response to the global pandemic is split ...[text shortened]... I'm speaking from an American perspective. The divides may not be quite as stark in other nations.

One side carries assault rifles and thinks all free/fair elections they lose were rigged (but the ones they won weren't rigged). They think the other side is more extreme.

@no1marauder said
You should keep the debate over your COVID minimization positions ( including your quaint idea that a disease still killing over 10,000 Americans a week is no longer one requiring any public policies that limit its spread) in one of the threads discussing it, including the dozen or so you started fawning over DeSantis' (in)actions.

It's quite strange to be accused of ...[text shortened]... to support the policy recommendations of public health officials during a deadly pandemic, however.

When did I accuse you of extremism?

You should really read the posts you respond to.

@no1marauder said
Found this interesting article in the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/03/how-politics-got-so-polarized

I was particularly struck by this observation:

"Social media, he allows, does encourage political extremists to become more extreme; the more outrageous the content they post, the more likes and new followers they attract, and the more status ...[text shortened]... nto hyperdrive,” Bail observes."

Do others find this to be true? I think it makes a lot of sense.

Another layer to add in here that I think is relevant: the decreased real life interactions brought about by the internet. Social media apps trick our minds into thinking that we know the people who post pictures and news articles on Twitter. We do know them, sort of, but we haven't seen them in 10+ years and certainly have not had a political conversation with them since the college years. They post pro-gun articles on their feed you find offensive, but I'll bet if you actually had a conversation instead of mumbling a response under your breath at breakfast, you'd not be too far from agreeing on something.

At risk of sounding too old man "get off my lawn" rant we had a big snowstorm the other day. School was cancelled. In the pre-internet era, my neighborhood would be swarming with kids/sleds/skis/snowforts/snowballs etc. But now 3 days later and in most yards with school age kids the snow still looks pristine. What the heck do you do inside all dang day on a snow day? Vaccine mandates are debatable but, man, staying inside on a snow day should be illegal.

@no1marauder said
Found this interesting article in the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/03/how-politics-got-so-polarized

I was particularly struck by this observation:

"Social media, he allows, does encourage political extremists to become more extreme; the more outrageous the content they post, the more likes and new followers they attract, and the more status ...[text shortened]... nto hyperdrive,” Bail observes."

Do others find this to be true? I think it makes a lot of sense.

I do believe that the internet gives a platform for extremists and rewards them for their hot extreme beliefs/ hot takes. Thus, one shouldn't just read the internet and think we are extreme.
I also believe that twenty years ago Trump and Sanders would have lucky to 1 percent of the vote in a national election. Trump actually became President and if the Democratic party played behaved differently perhaps Sanders would have too. So I believe we are supporting extremes as well.

@quackquack said
I also believe that twenty years ago Trump and Sanders would have lucky to 1 percent of the vote in a national election. Trump actually became President and if the Democratic party played behaved differently perhaps Sanders would have too. So I believe we are supporting extremes as well.

What is Bernie's most "extreme" policy? Single-payer healthcare?

Interesting what conservatives consider extreme as their president incites a violent insurrection.

@no1marauder said
Found this interesting article in the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/03/how-politics-got-so-polarized

I was particularly struck by this observation:

"Social media, he allows, does encourage political extremists to become more extreme; the more outrageous the content they post, the more likes and new followers they attract, and the more status ...[text shortened]... nto hyperdrive,” Bail observes."

Do others find this to be true? I think it makes a lot of sense.

Yes, good post and article.

Social media is a blight, and it’s getting worse. Facebook is a shadow of the fun platform it was for its first 10 years or so. A dark shadow at that.

@vivify said
What is Bernie's most "extreme" policy? Single-payer healthcare?

Interesting what conservatives consider extreme as their president incites a violent insurrection.

Obama implemented Universal Healthcare -- is a huge redistributive package that would happen once every half century. Bernie Sanders is far to the left of him. That's a huge shift in one direction and by definition -- an extreme which would not have happened at any other point in our nation's history.

@divegeester said
Yes, good post and article.

Social media is a blight, and it’s getting worse. Facebook is a shadow of the fun platform it was for its first 10 years or so. A dark shadow at that.

Aren’t all shadows inherently dark?

@shavixmir said
Aren’t all shadows inherently dark?

Not necessarily - depends on how much secondary lighting there is besides the shadow producing light. A spotlight makes much darker shadows than the Sun because the Sunlight is also bouncing sideways into the shaded area from other illuminated objects.