05 Mar 05
A lot of really interesting notions and thoughts in this thread. First of all, I am reminded of my mistaken support of the Patriot Act that was brought on by my desire to see "good" triumph over "evil".
The thought was not a bad one. I just failed to account for dimensions of difference in each of us as humans. To me, evil is easy to spot. To others, it is a mysterious thing that persecutes them.
I think RC hit this the closest. How to pronounce a good effect without draconian measures against us all?
I don't know. I guess a whole lot of common sense in those on the dragoon squad would help. But then that is self contradictory.
All I know is that on occasion, when the wife and I are getting horney, we have on occasion clicked on very disgusting child abuse. Should we therefore be subject to penalty of law?
Hell. All we were lookin' for was good clean adult sex. Snark. When you get to be as old as we are, you can use all the help you can get.
05 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeThat case is just sickening. But shavixmir's examples are all different grades of child pornography. While you have picked the worst case there are much less horrific examples.
Child sex trial opens in France
A total of 39 men and 27 women are on trial in Angers
Dozens of men and women accused of the rape and abuse of children have gone on trial in one of the biggest court cases in France's legal history.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4313747.stm
I'm not sure whether the people in question also took pictures f ...[text shortened]... ild abuse, including rape and the taking of pictures from it, can start right after birth.
06 Mar 05
Originally posted by XanthosNZYea.
That case is just sickening. But shavixmir's examples are all different grades of child pornography. While you have picked the worst case there are much less horrific examples.
That requires each of us to examine and "decide" what is a crime and an accidental "click" of the mouse. Doesn't it?
One can easily tell. Did the "clicker" follow the next "lead" to child porn?
End Of Truth as it is currently defined.
06 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by shavixmirHow about a legal definition...from U.S. Statutes which are similar to statutes in other developed nations.
I seriously think we need a proper definition of child pornography, before we lapse into debate.
So, I guess the definition of child pornography will have something to do with abuse and unwillingness?
Maybe a lack of understanding or assertiveness on the part of the subject?
What y'll think?
Child pornography as the sexually explicit conduct, actual or simulated of sexual intercourse, masterbation, sadistic and/or masochistic abuse, beastiality, lascivious exhibition of the gentials or pubic areas of any person under the age of 18.
Child pornography includes producing, directing, manufacturing, issuing, publishing, advertising of any visual dipiction of child pornography via film, videotape, data stored on computer disk or electronic data which is capable of conversion into visual depictions...
06 Mar 05
9 edits
Originally posted by AynatA better question.
How about a legal definition...from U.S. Statutes which are similar to statutes in other developed nations.
Child pornography as the sexually explicit conduct, actual or simulated of sexual intercourse, masterbation, sadistic and/or masoch ...[text shortened]... data which is capable of conversion into visual depictions...
What makes a "legal" definition better than a "real" definition"
"Authority"?
Really? what makes authority? A real ability or a purchased franchise?
For example...
I am but a poor old carpenter who built houses for a living.
But I will stake my existence and your human rights that I can defeat any pseudo intellect (that translated to 'Lawyer'😉 in an argument before any 12 humans alive.
Is that arrogance? Or is it an honest appraisal of the graft and incompetience of what passes for "Lawyers" these days. Hell. Test me. I warn (anyone) willing to consider,l to come and defend anyone accused of said crime today. Tomorrow. Or next year. I will do it and win. Because I can. If the cause is just. If the cause is for money and the perp is guilty... I take the stand for the prosector. Sorry marauder. Some of us actually have a conscience and know a murder (by a marauder) when we see it. Sorry. Go back to being a mighty being amongst your amoral friends and union cronies.
One word of warning. If I meet the person and decide that they are "guilty" then I will become a witness for the prosecution.
Snark. Who would have thought that a simple thing like "truth" could enter into "justice"? I guarandamdtee you that no "Lawyer" ever came up with that notion. It is all about the "Nixon Maxim".
Follow the money.
If you dare.
06 Mar 05
Originally posted by StarValleyWyOOPS! Sorry folks....I don't want to play games around this topic.
Child porn is not remotely okay with me, the fact is that lives are destroyed on a daily basis by molestors. Child porn is amost always found in abundance in the homes of child molestors, it is a common tool used to groom victims, it sustains and encourages the molestors sickness and even becomes a bonding ground and ritual amoung child molestors.
Perhaps you want to endlessly argue, I want children to be safe. I want molestors held accountable and if possible rehabilitated. It is not posible to extricate child pornography from the facts of child sexual assualt.
06 Mar 05
Originally posted by AynatWell said. I agree. Excellent post.
OOPS! Sorry folks....I don't want to play games around this topic.
Child porn is not remotely okay with me, the fact is that lives are destroyed on a daily basis by molestors. Child porn is amost always found in abundance in the homes of child molestors, it is a common tool used to groom victims, it sustains and encourages the molestors sickness and even ...[text shortened]... ed. It is not posible to extricate child pornography from the facts of child sexual assualt.
Mike
06 Mar 05
Originally posted by AynatI agree
OOPS! Sorry folks....I don't want to play games around this topic.
Child porn is not remotely okay with me, the fact is that lives are destroyed on a daily basis by molestors. Child porn is amost always found in abundance in the homes of child molestors, it is a common tool used to groom victims, it sustains and encourages the molestors sickness and even ...[text shortened]... ed. It is not posible to extricate child pornography from the facts of child sexual assualt.
06 Mar 05
Originally posted by shavixmirA lack of understanding for sure is one thing. A girl can say, have her periods and still be a child mentally. Part of this is a cultural attitude maybe; some cultures still mass rape women for revenge, doesn't mean we have to agree or condone it to show how "universal" we are.
I seriously think we need a proper definition of child pornography, before we lapse into debate.
Are we talking about photos of topless 16 year olds on a beach in South France?
Are we talking about sexual acts with willing particpants under the age of 18?
Are we talking about photos of 8 year olds from a nude colony?
Are we talking about these sam ...[text shortened]...
Maybe a lack of understanding or assertiveness on the part of the subject?
What y'll think?
06 Mar 05
Originally posted by KneverKnightOK here it is.
Oops, sorry😳
EDIT Hang on a second, you quoted me. I was referring to child porn only.
FlyUnity made a comment about the banning of all porn. I quoted that. Ivanhoe quoted me. I quoted Ivanhoe. Then you quoted me. And finally I quoted you.
Now you see if you trace it back I was indeed talking about pornography in general rather than child pornography. I don't know about everyone else in the chain.
I can see how you got confused.
06 Mar 05
Originally posted by XanthosNZIt's too easy ...😳
OK here it is.
FlyUnity made a comment about the banning of all porn. I quoted that. Ivanhoe quoted me. I quoted Ivanhoe. Then you quoted me. And finally I quoted you.
Now you see if you trace it back I was indeed talking about pornography in general rather than child pornography. I don't know about everyone else in the chain.
I can see how you got confused.