Victimless Crimes

@shavixmir said
The public is going to use the drugs, whether they are illegal or not.

Not all drugs are alcohol and weed. I don't see the public clamoring to use hard drugs like fentanyl, meth, etc. You won't kickstart a new Prohibition era by banning drugs like those.

Some drugs can be used recreationally without turning someone into a junkie while others will most definitely destroy a person. There's a reason why we have an opioid crises and not a marijuana crisis.

@kevcvs57 said
At the very least there needs to be registration of prostitutes if only to ensure that sex trafficked girls are not being raped by punters, if you have sex with an unregistered prostitute you go to jail and move on to a sex register afterwards.
Punters shouldn’t be able to rape forcibly sex trafficked women and underage girls and use the fig leaf prostitution.

This is a good idea I can get behind.

@vivify said
This is a good idea I can get behind.

There are already laws against rape and under age sex.

Consenting adults - mind your own business.

@vivify said
I'm not morally against prostitution or drug use but I'm not in favor complete legalization of them.

Prostitution just seems ripe for sexual abuse of women. It's just inevitable that horror stories of women being taken advantage of would spike if prostitution were legal. I think prostitution could work in a brothel setting that follows legal regulations but not on an in ...[text shortened]... criminalized but not the use of them. The law should focus on drug pushers rather than drug users.

"Prostitution just seems ripe for sexual abuse of women."
That's because it is illegal. Because the women (and men) can't turn to the police to defend them, can't work in a safe environment.

A brothel, operating openly, regulated, with hired security , with voluntary employees that can come and go just like with any other job? Why would that be ripe for sexual abuse more than any other job

"It's just inevitable that horror stories of women being taken advantage of would spike if prostitution were legal"
How do you figure this. It would be the other way around. Who in their right mind would go to a shady corner and deal with a pimp that looks like he is more likely to mug you for a prostitute you have no idea if is of legal age, clean, willing when you could go to a brothel operating above board?


You just have to look at the prohibition period in the US and change that to prostitution for an idea of what it would look like. Do we have a lot of gangsters running seedy speakeasies nowadays that alcohol is legal?

@wajoma said
There are already laws against rape and under age sex.

Consenting adults - mind your own business.

Hey idiot these girls are way beyond the reach of the law, they are held in black site brothels and trafficked by criminal gangs to well paying pedos.
Registration would be the means by which you have a hope in hell if enforcing these laws.
No one is talking about a consensual transaction between to mutually empowered adults. But you already knew this.

@kevcvs57 said
At the very least there needs to be registration of prostitutes if only to ensure that sex trafficked girls are not being raped by punters, if you have sex with an unregistered prostitute you go to jail and move on to a sex register afterwards.
Punters shouldn’t be able to rape forcibly sex trafficked women and underage girls and use the fig leaf prostitution.

"At the very least there needs to be registration of prostitutes if only to ensure that sex trafficked girls are not being raped by punters"
That still perpetuates the stigma associated with prostitution. We need to treat this as any other job.

"if you have sex with an unregistered prostitute you go to jail and move on to a sex register afterwards."
a bit harsh don't you think? You would put people who enter into a mutual consenting agreement with another adult on the same register as pedophiles and rapists? Have you thought this through?

We can discuss about having some regulation regarding free agent prostitutes operating outside of brothels. I guess that's reasonable, we have regulations in place for many other practices. You might be forbidden to sell cookies without some health permit no matter if you have a cookie factory or you do cookies in your kitchen to sell to your book club.

"Punters shouldn’t be able to rape forcibly sex trafficked women and underage girls and use the fig leaf prostitution."
I don't think anyone gets away with rape just by calling that woman a prostitute. It seems you mix prostitution and rape too much. Rape is a separate issue. Human trafficking is a separate issue.

@kevcvs57 said
Hey idiot these girls are way beyond the reach of the law, they are held in black site brothels and trafficked by criminal gangs to well paying pedos.
Registration would be the means by which you have a hope in hell if enforcing these laws.
No one is talking about a consensual transaction between to mutually empowered adults. But you already knew this.

That's why it needs to be legal. Fully. Half measures only keeps this in the dark. Bringing it fully into legality means those black site brothels go out of business.

@zahlanzi said
A brothel, operating openly, regulated, with hired security , with voluntary employees that can come and go just like with any other job? Why would that be ripe for sexual abuse more than any other job

I agree with this and already brought this point up. Prostitution can work in an organized setting like a brothel subject to regulations. It's a bad idea on individual basis when any random person could legally engage in prostitution on their own.

It's the difference between alcohol being sold in stores and people selling their own moonshine. It's okay if regulated but dangerous if just anyone can sell it.

@kevcvs57 said
Hey idiot these girls are way beyond the reach of the law,

You said it idiot, you want those wayyyyyy beyond the reach of law to register their criminal activity.

@vivify said
Not all drugs are alcohol and weed. I don't see the public clamoring to use hard drugs like fentanyl, meth, etc. You won't kickstart a new Prohibition era by banning drugs like those.

Some drugs can be used recreationally without turning someone into a junkie while others will most definitely destroy a person. There's a reason why we have an opioid crises and not a marijuana crisis.

The opioid crisis in the US is two-fold:
1. Junkies are treated like criminals, instead of in need of help.
2. GP’s were prescribing very heavy painkillers, way too easily, under pressure from drugs companies. The government cracked down on that and loads of people turned to illegal drugs.

Most people won’t take heroin during their lives. Those that do are not deterred by illegality.

Drugs like good quality cocaine and, mushrooms and LSD can be taken quite safely (the latter two over the age of 25).

@vivify said
I agree with this and already brought this point up. Prostitution can work in an organized setting like a brothel subject to regulations. It's a bad idea on individual basis when any random person could legally engage in prostitution on their own.

It's the difference between alcohol being sold in stores and people selling their own moonshine. It's okay if regulated but dangerous if just anyone can sell it.

When prostitution was finally legalized in NZ it did not lead to the downfall of society as the control freaks predicted. All that happened was another bunch of parasitical control freaks took over y with employment law, zoning laws, tax law.

A brothel that had been operating for many years with modest signage, known to police and everyone was forced to close because of zoning laws. Hamilton City Council has now stomped on the right to free expression by banning all signage. Prostitutes are wishing they could go back to the days when it was illegal.

@shavixmir said
The opioid crisis in the US is two-fold:
1. Junkies are treated like criminals, instead of in need of help.
2. GP’s were prescribing very heavy painkillers, way too easily, under pressure from drugs companies. The government cracked down on that and loads of people turned to illegal drugs.

Most people won’t take heroin during their lives. Those that do are not deterred ...[text shortened]... uality cocaine and, mushrooms and LSD can be taken quite safely (the latter two over the age of 25).

Marijuana users were also treated like criminals for decades. We've still never had an actual crisis of weed users. No one dies from overdosing on it.

I agree cocaine and LSD, within limits, can be used safely. Drugs like meth, heroin and fentanyl? I just don't see it being anything other than a problem.

@wajoma said
You said it idiot, you want those wayyyyyy beyond the reach of law to register their criminal activity.

Yeah registration of all legal voluntary, age of consent prostitutes and brothels will make the shutting down and eradication if these rapey pedo hubs a whole lot easier, and take away a big incentive for sex traffickers and make their rapey/ pedo clientele more likely to pay for their crime.
I guess trying to stop this horror smacks of goobermint intrusion into the market place for you.

@kevcvs57 said
Yeah registration of all legal voluntary, age of consent prostitutes and brothels will make the shutting down and eradication if these rapey pedo hubs a whole lot easier, and take away a big incentive for sex traffickers and make their rapey/ pedo clientele more likely to pay for their crime.
I guess trying to stop this horror smacks of goobermint intrusion into the market place for you.

You guessed wrong.

I'm opposed to rape and underage sex (a kind of rape).

You haven't said how registering adults and the voluntary exchange of value for value will have any effect on already illegal behavior.

“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve."

H L Mencken

@vivify said
I agree with this and already brought this point up. Prostitution can work in an organized setting like a brothel subject to regulations. It's a bad idea on individual basis when any random person could legally engage in prostitution on their own.

It's the difference between alcohol being sold in stores and people selling their own moonshine. It's okay if regulated but dangerous if just anyone can sell it.

"It's a bad idea on individual basis when any random person could legally engage in prostitution on their own. "
All manner of unsafe crap are bad ideas. Free form rock climbing is the mother of all bad ideas but one shouldn't be banned from doing.

Free agent prostitution should be allowed under the same restrictions as any other prostitution. If you pay your taxes and abide by the regulations, it's on you if you forego the benefits of working in a brothel.

"It's the difference between alcohol being sold in stores and people selling their own moonshine. It's okay if regulated but dangerous if just anyone can sell it."
Absolutely, i never meant free agent prostitutes to be magically exempt from regulations.