Debates
23 Jun 23
24 Jun 23
@kevcvs57 said"It was two hours after the Wagner leader declared war on the high command and told the truth about the Ukrainian invasion being pointless and counterproductive."
It was two hours after the Wagner leader declared war on the high command and told the truth about the Ukrainian invasion being pointless and counterproductive. He blames the same high command that has mismanaged the war for starting it in a bid to gain status and glory within Russia.
By "declaring war" you mean criticizing? I haven't learned much about this lover's quarrel but i doubt Wagner wants to coup Putin with how many soldiers he got.
24 Jun 23
@zahlanzi saidI mean saying they should be put up against a wall and shot for treason or words to that effect, just before he marched into Rostov and took over the southern military command base.
"It was two hours after the Wagner leader declared war on the high command and told the truth about the Ukrainian invasion being pointless and counterproductive."
By "declaring war" you mean criticizing? I haven't learned much about this lover's quarrel but i doubt Wagner wants to coup Putin with how many soldiers he got.
He’s pretty much declared war on Putin’s top command, the question is will other regular military units side with him or with the generals. After the missile strike he started calling his rebellion “A March for justice” sounds like a declaration of civil war to me.
24 Jun 23
@kevcvs57 said"I mean saying they should be put up against a wall and shot for treason or words to that effect"
I mean saying they should be put up against a wall and shot for treason or words to that effect, just before he marched into Rostov and took over the southern military command base.
He’s pretty much declared war on Putin’s top command, the question is will other regular military units side with him or with the generals. After the missile strike he started calling his rebellion “A March for justice” sounds like a declaration of civil war to me.
Ok 😀 I would suggest you don't use cutesy words like these when talking about Russia. I mean, they are indeed used when talking about politics in the US, UK, pretty much the entire western world. But in this context, with Russia and the insanity of Putin and the context of the war in Ukraine, saying some important character "declared war" it can really lead someone to believe an actual war was declared and he just missed breaking news.
24 Jun 23
@zahlanzi saidIncompetence? Are you saying Russia accidentally bombed the Wagner group?
"I am still waiting for the motive for Russia to bomb their own fighting force."
Incompetence, ya ding dong. What has given you the impression Putin and his bootlickers are master planners.
Whenever you don't have definitive proof you follow Occam's razor principle, nobody but you conspiracy theorists go straight for the most complicated and outlandish scenario
Yours is the outlandish scenario. Russia denied it even happened. That seems very unlikely to be true. How could Prigozhin get all those soldiers to follow him into a live or die battle if they did not see any missile coming from the rear and feel betrayed?
24 Jun 23
@metal-brain said"Incompetence? Are you saying Russia accidentally bombed the Wagner group?"
Incompetence? Are you saying Russia accidentally bombed the Wagner group?
Yours is the outlandish scenario. Russia denied it even happened. That seems very unlikely to be true. How could Prigozhin get all those soldiers to follow him into a live or die battle if they did not see any missile coming from the rear and feel betrayed?
Until you give me proof otherwise, I say that's most likely. Way more probable than CIA (?) doing it. Even the "Putin punished Prigozhin for being rude to him" is more probably than "the americans did it"
"Yours is the outlandish scenario. Russia denied it even happened"
Which fits my scenario better, they being embarassed
"How could Prigozhin get all those soldiers to follow him into a live or die battle if they did not see any missile coming from the rear and feel betrayed?"
Money.
24 Jun 23
@Zahlanzi
Prigozhin clearly does not believe it was an accident. Unless you believe the Russians when they deny any missile attack happened at all Prigozhin has followers and you cannot spend money when you are dead. Besides, Prigozhin got his money from the Russian government. That ship has sailed. What money?
@zahlanzi saidLol you clearly have missed the news. Wagner is marching on Moscow and it’s making good progress apparently.
"I mean saying they should be put up against a wall and shot for treason or words to that effect"
Ok 😀 I would suggest you don't use cutesy words like these when talking about Russia. I mean, they are indeed used when talking about politics in the US, UK, pretty much the entire western world. But in this context, with Russia and the insanity of Putin and the context of the ...[text shortened]... it can really lead someone to believe an actual war was declared and he just missed breaking news.
There is definitely the ‘fog of war’ effect at the moment.
We don’t know if Prigozhin has substantial active support from a portion of the regular armed forces but it’s hard to imagine that he would make this play without it.
Putin is calling it an armed rebellion so I guess he’s prone to using ‘cutesy language’ too 🤔
24 Jun 23
@kevcvs57 saidhah, ok 😀 like i said i only woke up to this and before you clarified it i only had a few articles.
Lol you clearly have missed the news. Wagner is marching on Moscow and it’s making good progress apparently.
There is definitely the ‘fog of war’ effect at the moment.
We don’t know if Prigozhin has substantial active support from a portion of the regular armed forces but it’s hard to imagine that he would make this play without it.
Putin is calling it an armed rebellion so I guess he’s prone to using ‘cutesy language’ too 🤔
24 Jun 23
@zahlanzi saidI’m following it on a few sources and the consensus seems to be that the next 24 - 36 hrs will be decisive. Putin cannot let Wagner get too close to Moscow let alone enter it and the Chechen’s are gathering on the border of the Rostov region where Prigozhin has set up his base of operations.
hah, ok 😀 like i said i only woke up to this and before you clarified it i only had a few articles.
This could be good news for the Ukrainian counter offensive in the south because Rostov is the Russian forces supply and command centre for that theatre but they need to act quickly
24 Jun 23
@kevcvs57 saidThe WG did not switch sides.
I’m following it on a few sources and the consensus seems to be that the next 24 - 36 hrs will be decisive. Putin cannot let Wagner get too close to Moscow let alone enter it and the Chechen’s are gathering on the border of the Rostov region where Prigozhin has set up his base of operations.
This could be good news for the Ukrainian counter offensive in the south because Rostov is the Russian forces supply and command centre for that theatre but they need to act quickly
Yevgeny Prigozhin said they would return to the front lines in Ukraine after they take out the military leaders in Russia. ATY created an inaccurate title to this thread.
24 Jun 23
@Metal-Brain
The fact Wag left gives opening for the Ukrainians in the fight to get back Crimea.
