30 Jan 11
Originally posted by GaigoonA miracle is presumably an event for which not only there is no scientific explanation (not enough - too many gaps in our knowledge as yet) but also that clearly flies in the face of what science predicts and can account for. It might enhance the claim if there was a contrary prediction within a religious context which was proven positive in this case. Perhaps if the Sun stood still in the sky for twenty four hours that might be an example, though maybe not in the Arctic Circle so much as over the Mediterranean.
Title explains all.
In cosmology, one argument against Creationism of the literal variety is that there ought to be some event in the history of the cosmos which conflicts with science and that there is none that can be clearly demonstrated as yet. For this reason, Stephen Hawkings and others like to joke that they have encountered another problem which seems impossible to explain and might turn out to be that missing miracle - but each time it turns out that there is an explanation after all, no miracle, no need for (that version of) God. Of course where religion does not rely on the literal truth of the Bible, and even for Christians that has nearly always been the case, this type of debate can soon become fatuous. It is a sort of private argument.
31 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by finneganNo miracle? Where did matter come from? Where did life come from? Has science been able to reproduce or witness the formation of either? If it has, then the scientific method could be used to splain them away. If not, then they are events in history that conflict with what science knows to be true.
A miracle is presumably an event for which not only there is no scientific explanation (not enough - too many gaps in our knowledge as yet) but also that clearly flies in the face of what science predicts and can account for. It might enhance the claim if there was a contrary prediction within a religious context which was proven positive in this case. Perh ...[text shortened]... ys been the case, this type of debate can soon become fatuous. It is a sort of private argument.
31 Jan 11
Originally posted by whodeyGet an education.
No miracle? Where did matter come from? Where did life come from? Has science been able to reproduce or witness the formation of either? If it has, then the scientific method could be used to splain them away. If not, then they are events in history that conflict with what science knows to be true.
31 Jan 11
Originally posted by whodeyPerhaps you can explain baryogenesis, whodey.
No miracle? Where did matter come from? Where did life come from? Has science been able to reproduce or witness the formation of either? If it has, then the scientific method could be used to splain them away. If not, then they are events in history that conflict with what science knows to be true.
31 Jan 11
I saw an interesting show on National Geographic about people who survived terrible accidents. One of them was a window washer in NYC. His platform fell 47 stories and he survived. They were able to reconstruct it and determine how he may have survived such a fall. They went on to say this wasn't a miracle because they could explain how he was saved. To me, being able to explain the mechanics doesn't mean it isn't a miracle.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/nyregion/12fall.html
31 Jan 11
Miracles is purely a religious phenomenon. It is something happening totally outside any explanation of science.
Miracles is not only low probability to happen. It's zero probability, and yet it happens. Then it is a miracle.
A friend of mine is called Jesus. He lived by his mother 'til he was 32 years of age. And if he once even made his own bed, it was a miracle.
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31 Jan 11
Originally posted by dryhumpBut then, what *does* mean something is a miracle, such that we can tell a miracle from a non-miracle? Maybe everything is a miracle, including that when a dog poops, it doesn't fall up. Doesn't that take some of the coolness off of the concept of miracles?
I saw an interesting show on National Geographic about people who survived terrible accidents. One of them was a window washer in NYC. His platform fell 47 stories and he survived. They were able to reconstruct it and determine how he may have survived such a fall. They went on to say this wasn't a miracle because they could explain how he was saved. To ...[text shortened]... s doesn't mean it isn't a miracle.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/nyregion/12fall.html
01 Feb 11
Originally posted by JS357One foot to the left or right, according to the program I watched, and that window washer gets crushed up like a tin can. We're talking about one step. I don't want to get into a discussion about probablility after the fact, but it's pretty freaking amazing that he just happened to be standing in the exact right spot to come through it alive. If you don't believe in miracles there's nothing I'm going to say to convince you.
But then, what *does* mean something is a miracle, such that we can tell a miracle from a non-miracle? Maybe everything is a miracle, including that when a dog poops, it doesn't fall up. Doesn't that take some of the coolness off of the concept of miracles?
For people who do believe it isn't hard to see them everywhere. The fact that your dog is alive to take a poop in a universe where life seems to be extrememly rare is a miracle in and of itself. Whether you believe god created the universe or not, that dog is unique. That's the only time in 14 billion years that dog has produced that exact poop and it won't ever be produced again. Kinda makes you want to save it all up like a precious art work, doesn't it.
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01 Feb 11
Originally posted by dryhumpThe dog that I have taking a poop would indeed be a miracle.
One foot to the left or right, according to the program I watched, and that window washer gets crushed up like a tin can. We're talking about one step. I don't want to get into a discussion about probablility after the fact, but it's pretty freaking amazing that he just happened to be standing in the exact right spot to come through it alive. If you don't ...[text shortened]... d again. Kinda makes you want to save it all up like a precious art work, doesn't it.