Would this be a crime?

@techsouth said
Would that be a crime?

yeah yeah, we get it. You don't approve of Biden forgiving student debt. Go bore someone else

@mott-the-hoople said
LOL...I have had the same thoughts...probably like our dept of heath person

No question there is a trans x among us. Hair buns lead to tats lead to trans. I may cash it all in if it gives me a path to meaning in my life

@zahlanzi said
yeah yeah, we get it. You don't approve of Biden forgiving student debt. Go bore someone else

If you had to pick paying the student debt of people graduating college, putting them on the road to success, or paying off mortgages of veterans , who have lost their limbs, which would you choose?
Why don’t libs answer questions ?

@techsouth said
Let's say I write 100 checks without approval from the board of directors, $10,000 each, from a corporate account and distribute them to random people.

Would that be a crime?

Hold on. Before you answer. I should add that each of the 100 checks are written to a person making less than $75,000 per year.

Wait! There is more!!! Also, the board of directors [b]has[/ ...[text shortened]... s to a few wealthy people of over $100,000.

Is this a crime if we consider all of the specifics?

It’s embezzlement obviously regardless of it’s Robin Hood nature
There now you can do your clever gotcha thing about student debt relief even though it does not even begin work as a comparison

@kevcvs57 said
It’s embezzlement obviously regardless of it’s Robin Hood nature
There now you can do your clever gotcha thing about student debt relief even though it does not even begin work as a comparison

Wow! I thought it was kind of a good comparison. After hearing all the snide support arguments for Biden's loan forgiveness, (e.g. payments mostly go to those earning less than $75,000 per year as if that makes it automatically good, I thought it would be a good thought exercise to apply the same reasoning to a less politically charged, but comparable situation. I thought that by taking the political tribalism out of the situation we all might be able to judge more objectively.

But I obviously tried to force fit a comparison in a domain it doesn't belong. Now I have been helpfully informed that this analogy "does not even begin to work as a comparison". A president writing a million large checks right before an election is no reason for any concern whatsoever (as long CNN and MSNBC support it, of course).

I always get good education here at RHP. Keep it up. I am gaining more and more education each day.

@techsouth said
Wow! I thought it was kind of a good comparison. After hearing all the snide support arguments for Biden's loan forgiveness, (e.g. payments mostly go to those earning less than $75,000 per year as if that makes it automatically good, I thought it would be a good thought exercise to apply the same reasoning to a less politically charged, but comparable situation. I thoug ...[text shortened]... always get good education here at RHP. Keep it up. I am gaining more and more education each day.

Again it’s not comparable because your example quite obviously a crime whilst Biden is carrying a policy that he campaigned on so it could not be a worse comparison.
when you are implementing these relief or benefit polivies it’s very normal and reasonable to set an upper limit means tested element, I prefer universal benefits clawed back from the upper earners through the tax system myself but hey 🤷🏻‍♂️ It’s the US we’re talking about.

@kevcvs57 said
Again it’s not comparable because your example quite obviously a crime whilst Biden is carrying a policy that he campaigned on so it could not be a worse comparison.
when you are implementing these relief or benefit polivies it’s very normal and reasonable to set an upper limit means tested element, I prefer universal benefits clawed back from the upper earners through the tax system myself but hey 🤷🏻‍♂️ It’s the US we’re talking about.

Since Democrats are now making campaign promises to commit crimes, it is not a crime anymore. If lots of people are in favor of it and it's popular (e.g. Robin Hood), we no longer judge by the standards that others would be judged by. The president should be able to take any amount of money he wants from wealthy people without congress being involved because it would be popular. He may need to campaign on it though. If he waits until after the election to announce it, that's kind of sketchy.

But something like building a wall on the border of Mexico, even though that would have also been popular, it would have been a crime to do without congressional approval. Even though Trump campaigned on that, CNN and MSNBC didn't approve so we really need to go by the book on that one.

Got it. Thanks for explaining it to me.

@techsouth said
Since Democrats are now making campaign promises to commit crimes, it is not a crime anymore. If lots of people are in favor of it and it's popular (e.g. Robin Hood), we no longer judge by the standards that others would be judged by. The president should be able to take any amount of money he wants from wealthy people without congress being involved because it would be p ...[text shortened]... approve so we really need to go by the book on that one.

Got it. Thanks for explaining it to me.

It’s not a crime you clown, they had a legal entitlement to make policy on these matters, it’s called a democratic mandate.
Is it a crime to tell a rape victim that they cannot terminate the resulting foetus?
You seem to be getting crime and policies you disagree with confused. Biden did not, like you, embezzle funds from his company, he utilised politically available funds to relieve the lower paid from a debt burden just like he said he would when he put himself up for office.
It would seem no matter how clearly reality and facts are explained to you you fail to either accept and / or grasp them.

@kevcvs57 said
It’s not a crime you clown, they had a legal entitlement to make policy on these matters, it’s called a democratic mandate.
Is it a crime to tell a rape victim that they cannot terminate the resulting foetus?
You seem to be getting crime and policies you disagree with confused. Biden did not, like you, embezzle funds from his company, he utilised politically available fun ...[text shortened]... er how clearly reality and facts are explained to you you fail to either accept and / or grasp them.

How is it decided that Biden can do this? Is there anything he can't do as president?

Are there any relevant Constitutional guidelines, or does the president have unlimited power over financial matters of the US?

A president with unlimited power has a term associated with it.

@techsouth said
How is it decided that Biden can do this? Is there anything he can't do as president?

Are there any relevant Constitutional guidelines, or does the president have unlimited power over financial matters of the US?

A president with unlimited power has a term associated with it.

No there is nothing in the constitution to say that a congress and / or POTUS cannot utilise public funds to alleviate poverty and debt, I’m sure of this because if there was it would have been used umpteen times and there would be no Medicaid or welfare of any kind.
Are you claiming that because a court has temporarily blocked student debt relief Biden has committed a crime? Because that would be an incredibly stupid thing to claim.

@techsouth said
How is it decided that Biden can do this? Is there anything he can't do as president?

Are there any relevant Constitutional guidelines, or does the president have unlimited power over financial matters of the US?

A president with unlimited power has a term associated with it.

If you're interested in the legal justification for Biden's student debt forgiveness plan (I doubt it but you never know) there's this brief discussion from the Congressional Research Service: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/[WORD TOO LONG].

@no1marauder said
If you're interested in the legal justification for Biden's student debt forgiveness plan (I doubt it but you never know) there's this brief discussion from the Congressional Research Service: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/[WORD TOO LONG].

Yeah. They really pulled a rabbit out of their hat with that one.

Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 - Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affected individual who: (1) is serving on active duty during a war or other military operation or national emergency; (2) is performing qualifying National Guard duty during a war, operation, or emergency; (3) resides or is employed in an area that is declared a disaster area by any Federal, State, or local official in connection with a national emergency; or (4) suffered direct economic hardship as a direct result of a war or other military operation or national emergency.

It sounds like vote buying was exactly what they had in mind when they passed this in 2003.

I notice in this Forbes article from 2021 the conversation seemed to not even consider this angle. In fact, I never even heard this HERO Act enter the conversation until very recently. This "justification" was never part of the conversation until the last minute. https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/02/23/5-reasons-to-support-student-loan-cancellation/

If we give this amount of leeway in interpreting emergencies, I can't see how the prevented Trump from building the wall using military funds. He is the commander in chief.

Here is a quote about Trump using emergency powers to build a wall “The courts have once again confirmed what everyone knows: Trump’s fake ‘national emergency’ was just another pretext for targeting immigrants and border communities,”

Can't we also say that Biden's fake "national emergency" angle on student loan forgiveness is something everyone knows is just a pretext to buy votes?

@techsouth said
Yeah. They really pulled a rabbit out of their hat with that one.

Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 - Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affecte ...[text shortened]... gency" angle on student loan forgiveness is something everyone knows is just a pretext to buy votes?

The pandemic was/is a "fake national emergency"? Somebody should have told the Donald: https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-declaring-national-emergency-concerning-novel-coronavirus-disease-covid-19-outbreak/

The Forbes article gave reasons why student debt should be cancelled, not the legal justification for it.

@no1marauder said
The pandemic was/is a "fake national emergency"? Somebody should have told the Donald: https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-declaring-national-emergency-concerning-novel-coronavirus-disease-covid-19-outbreak/

The Forbes article gave reasons why student debt should be cancelled, not the legal justification for it.

I never said that Covid wasn't a national emergency, just that using it as a justification for student loan forgiveness is a fake reason. If this is how low of a bar we set for giving away $10,000, I'd imagine with all the laws currently on the books that our president could find legal justification for literally anything else he wanted to do. Are you comfortable with that?

Why couldn't Trump use a national emergency as a justification to build a wall?

@techsouth said
I never said that Covid wasn't a national emergency, just that using it as a justification for student loan forgiveness is a fake reason. If this is how low of a bar we set for giving away $10,000, I'd imagine with all the laws currently on the books that our president could find legal justification for literally anything else he wanted to do. Are you comfortable with that?

Why couldn't Trump use a national emergency as a justification to build a wall?

Actually he did and the SCOTUS let him get away with it. And that was after Congress specifically refused to fund the wall

The statutory language seems pretty clear and student loan payments were suspended by the Trump administration starting in March 2020 (to buy votes?). Cancelation seems consistent with that though the courts will get the final say (if anyone or thing can establish legal standing).