20 Jan 04
Originally posted by belgianfreakMe, dismissive? 😉 Interesting post and some good points, but I have to disagree with you that there are NO evil people in the world. By denying evil, you deny the existence of Satan, and by denying the existence of Satan you are in essence denying the existence of God, correct? (a whole other new topic?) I do agree that some people act out their crimes in the heat of passion or during an episode of true insanity. However, there are instances of cool, calculated planning on behalf of plenty of criminals that only a mind absent of insanity could perform. I see your point about Hitler seeing the Jews as sub-Human...that would explain his irrationality.
tough one. I'm not sure I can give an answer but I'll try. I would ask that you try not to be as immediately dismissive as you usually are though....
People don't do things because they are "evil". Thinking that bad things hapen because there are "evil" people makes it easy for us to dissosiate ourselves from them. This way we don't have to t ...[text shortened]... , be they physical, mental or psycological, as to how they became screwed up in the first place.
But why can't evil exist in someone's heart and mind? Why can't some crimes be explained simply because the perpoetor had a raging hatred in his/her heart and was hell-bent on causing mayhem. I'll tell you why...because as a society, we have come to excuse every horrible act as not really being the fault of the perpetrator: "he had a bad childhood", "he was abused sexually as a child", etc. While those situations can and do create monsters, not everyone who was abused becomes a monster..why?, because as humans, WE have a choice to either do no harm or to harm unless one is insane, then it is a different issue. Random House College Dictionary defines evil as "morally wrong"; "immoral"; "wicked". Therefore, unless we are evil or insane we are obligated as humans to do no harm to our fellow man. Denying the existence of evil, in my opinion, allows for excuses to explain away the deeds of murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc....some of these people even admit to evil. Do a google search on Richard Ramirez, aka the night stalker, and see for yourself. Did Jeffrey Dahmer dine on black teens because he liked "soul food"? He did what he did because he was disturbed but also because he was evil in the fact that he was able to cover his trail of horror for so long. The first evil act was Cain murdering Abel...why? because he hated his brother...Hate...always a recipe for evil deeds. Now, was I so dismissive? 🙂..thanks for your input....
20 Jan 04
1 edit
Originally posted by chancremechanici don't think this issue has to do with whether people can be evil or not, but only because, then you still have to deal with the pragmatic response of what do you do with them.
... I have to disagree with you that there are NO evil people in the world ...
what it boils down to is this: some people have proven to be a threat to the well-being of individuals and society by committing acts that have 'damaged' and may, in the future, 'damage' other individuals.
what is society's response (elimination, confinement, rehabilitation, something else) to be?
in friendship,
prad
20 Jan 04
1 edit
Who gets killed in america by the death penalty?
If i am to believe those wise cracks, saddam did have democratic elections in which he won almost every vote, and most U.S. death penalties are given to poor black males.
I doubt saddams elections were all that fair. Were the trials leading to those U.S. executions? Surely being poor and black is not the definition of evil.
Or is the statistic flawed?
21 Jan 04
Originally posted by pradtfPrad, are there any Zen stories that take up the issue of punishment?
i don't think this issue has to do with whether people can be evil or not, but only because, then you still have to deal with the pragmatic response of what do you do with them.
what it boils down to is this: some people have proven to be a threat to the well-being of individuals and society by committing acts that have 'damaged' and may, in the future ...[text shortened]... ponse (elimination, confinement, rehabilitation, something else) to be?
in friendship,
prad
21 Jan 04
Originally posted by flexmoreWhat the hell are you talking about? I did not say one thing about race or that being black equates to being evil. I also said that I was against the death penalty. I'm talking apples and you are talking oranges. However, since you brought it up, blacks do commit a disproportionate number of crimes in America, and you may not like it but the facts are there statistically. They don't commit these crimes because they are black per se, but because of environmental and /or lack of parental upbringing [remember that 75% of blacks are born out of wedlock= one parent family mimus the father]. Whites raised in similar conditions commit crimes too. Is the justice system fair to minorities? Not completely, but tell me where is it? Surely where you're from, right? 🙄 Is it fair to whites?...not always, and you can believe that there are plenty of whites and Hispanics on death row...so, there you have it matey...😲
Who gets killed in america by the death penalty?
If i am to believe those wise cracks, saddam did have democratic elections in which he won almost every vote, and most U.S. death penalties are given to poor black males.
I doubt saddams elections were all that fair. Were the trials leading to those U.S. executions? Surely being poor and black is not the definition of evil.
Or is the statistic flawed?
21 Jan 04
1 edit
Originally posted by kirksey957since zen masters regularly whacked their students into enlightenment, the 'punishment' concept never doesn't really seem to apply 😀
Prad, are there any Zen stories that take up the issue of punishment?
however, there is a very striking story about good and evil:
a samurai warrior started questioning what he was doing and came to a zen monk.
S: hey old monk! is there really a heaven and a hell?
M: who are you?
S: i am a samurai!!
M: what? you a warrior? ha! you look like a beggar! so you have a sword. you're probably so weak you can't lift it!
the samurai took out his sword and raised it about to give the monk his death blow.
M: here open the gates of hell.
the samurai was stunned that the monk would give up his life to teach him and in a moment of enlightenment put his sword down and bowed humbly to the monk.
M: and here, open the gates of heaven.
in friendship,
prad
ps kirksey, i know you are a minister, but i would suggest you not engage in in this sort of thing without careful consideration 😵
21 Jan 04
Originally posted by pradtfI could really get into that "regular whacking" part though. 😉
since zen masters regularly whacked their students into enlightenment, the 'punishment' concept never doesn't really seem to apply 😀
however, there is a very striking story about good and evil:
a samurai warrior started questioning what he was doing and came to a zen monk.
S: hey old monk! is there really a heaven and a hell?
M: who are you?
S: ...[text shortened]... er, but i would suggest you not engage in in this sort of thing without careful consideration 😵