enjoying freedom for the first time - i like that. *gazes heavenwards* 😕
yes, everyone is going to go home now that Saddam is gone....( Oh i can be quite flippant sometimes )
is there anyone else that does not agree with all of the previous posts?
also, just wondering how many have died in the Congo? was the death tole as 'severe and catastrophic' as those suffered by the allied American/British Forces? ðŸ˜
Originally posted by belgianfreakhow quickly have you forgoten the cost unpon these people for just being alive!
And don't forget what the "liberation" has cost.
nothings free in this world of capitolistic decay.
quite frankly id die happy if i knew my children would have a hand in making a better life for our people (suicide bombers motto??).
ps "on a long enough time scale everyones survival rate reaches zero"
You say that as an adult. I wonder what the 12-year-old boy who lost his entire family and both of his arms to an errant missle would say about the cost of freedom. He literally looked at the camera and said he wanted to die. I have never (and probably will never) seen someone that young fervently wish for death and mean every word.
Late last night, CNN was showing footage of Baghdad and field hospitals, filled with civilian casualties (what an awful term). It was pretty horrific. Yes, this was juxtaposed with footage of celebrants gleefully defiling pictures of Saddam, but the liberation, in my estimation, has cost too much.
so ud rather we let all of them suffer slowly under the regime while france block every move to help them.
We watch while animals suffer at our hands, even in our "civilised" countries, very few people even take note, one child wishes they were dead, and ud think the world was going to end. This war is not about the now, its about the future of these people.
Originally posted by nktwildAs I understood it France AND Russia AND China, and several other nations, all blocked efforts of the US to get a UN thumbs up for a war. They didn't block "every move to help them", just the one that involved an unnecessary war. The fact that you solely blame France shows that you have been sucked into the PR of blaming 1 country, because the US doesn't want to annoy all of them, especially China.
so ud rather we let all of them suffer slowly under the regime while france block every move to help them.
We watch while animals suffer at our hands, even in our "civilised" countries, very few people even take note, one child wishes th ...[text shortened]... war is not about the now, its about the future of these people.
It's a common compliant in the UK (I don't know about other countries) that people care more for animals than for other people, so I don't know where you comment about them suffering is supposed to be going. And if that "one child" had been an American who had lost his family and his arms in an unnecessary attack it WOULD be treated like the world had come to an end. And it's not one child, it's hundreds - he's just the one who talked to CNN.
Very convenient to forget about the war and the damage it's caused, and concentrate on the images of people rejoycing, who for all we know are the vocal minority who dare leave their homes. Forget that they have been invaded and it is still to be seen if their lives improve under any puppet regeme that is set up to replace it. Forget about the people who can't rejoyce because they are dead.
OK, picture this. There's a block of flats and all 10,000 occupents are locked in. The guy who runs the place isn't a very nice person, and life could be better if he was replaced. But to replace him 1 occupent must be sacraficed, at random. Do you do it?
Now picture this: the occupents, some of whom like the regeme & some don't, don't make that decision. They're in their block of flats when the doors are busted in, and the men from the bigger block of flats next door run in and kill the leader. They also pick a resident at random & sacrafice him/her. The residents didn't chose this course of action, it instead happened to them. Was it right? I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is for the oppressed to change the regeme for themselves, in their own way and their own time. It has happened countless times in history in every country.
Bear in mind that the "liberators" from next door are solely say they are there for that reason, to liberate them. There is no proof that the next leader will be any better. There is no proof that life for the individual will get better. In fact it'll probably be much the same. And all the treasures that the old regeme was keeping for itself? Maybe, just maybe, the guys next door might not leave until they've secured it for themselves.
As for the looters "cscelebrating freedome", I guarentee you that if you removed all the police from any major city, within hours of this being known there'd be young men smashing windows and making off with whatever they could carry.
Originally posted by belgianfreak
Very convenient to forget about the war and the damage it's caused
you think? you say that to me whilst forgetting the cost upon them, simply for being alive. a nice little stand-off we have created with those 2.
A heavy price on there shoulders for living, and we just charged them to remove that cost.
As I understood it France AND Russia AND China, and several other nations, all blocked efforts of the US to get a UN thumbs up for a war
France said it would block EVERY move made by america, the others said they would only agree to war if more evidence was found.
And if that "one child" had been an American who had lost his family and his arms in an unnecessary attack it WOULD be treated like the world had come to an end.
September 11 anyone? saw a problem, dealt with it (in their own specail way" and moved on.
OK, picture this. There's a block of flats and all 10,000 occupents are locked in. The guy who runs the place isn't a very nice person, and life could be better if he was replaced. But to replace him 1 occupent must be sacraficed, at random. Do you do it?
Now picture this, the rent is OVERLY excessive, not a problem, you try to leave, the landlord sends his goons to stop you, so ur turned back in, the violent way. So your back in your room, beaten and bruised, you'll get over it right? right?? wrong, theres a knock on ur door, you open it, the goons are back, you panick and want to run, but where to? they wont let you out!!!! A boken bon and pint of blood later and ur in the basement, electric torture is ur life from now on. About this piont, ur scorched battered and broken body has just 2 thoughts... "someone kill me" and "someone end this maddness please", it's all you can think about, you manage to look around and see a sizeable chunk of residents are there with you, they're beaten and broken to. Then you see it, you shudder with ur last ounce of strength, in the corner, a pile of dead bodies, wrapped in plastic bags.
Suddenly one life doesnt seem like much of a price any more.
Do you get it yet? Yes the price of change, is and allways will be, extremely high, but the price of not acting is just as high.
We tried for 12 years to get a peaceful solution to this problem, and FAILED.
We must always seek the peace, but know this,
without victory there can be no peace.
Originally posted by nktwildOK, so I've had a busy day and my analogy wasn't that good, but att least I tried to paint an image reprasentative of what is going on, not one from your imagination. But what I was trying to say is that if a people are under a represive regeme it should be them that make the first move to change it - start a revelution, ask for outside help, wait until the bastard dies. But they have to do to themselves, as France, Russia, America all did. The outside can help - make life for the bad govenment difficult, but removing a regeme just because you don't like it makes you judge and jury of the planet, and what gives the US that right?
Originally posted by belgianfreak
[b]Very convenient to forget about the war and the damage it's caused
you think? you say that to me whilst forgetting the cost upon them, simply for being alive. a nice little stand-off we have created with those 2.
A heavy price on there shoulders for living, and we just charged them to remove that cost.
...[text shortened]... We must always seek the peace, but know this,
without victory there can be no peace.[/b][/b]
People talk about the harsh system in Iraq - Islamic law is harsh, it's 1000's of years old, and it works. Get caught stealing and get your hand cut off - at least they cut off the left one first. Harsh and brutal? Yes, but by our standards. What right do we have to impose our standards on them? The man who steals might lose a hand - the man he steals from might starve.
And HELLO! Even your own govenment PR doesn't try to suggest that they invaded Iraq because of Sept 11th. What has Iraq got to do with it? (oh, but they all look the same...) There are more terrorists known to be living in the UK & America than Iraq.
France said it would block every move by the US to start a waris saw as unjust and unnecessary, not every move to help the Iraqi people. Big difference.
Originally posted by belgianfreak
att least I tried to paint an image reprasentative of what is going on, not one from your imagination.
my imagination? really? thats funny, its comon knowledge that Iraq tortures and kills those who oppose its government, we have even found some of the torture areas, as for the goon squad...they were Iraq's police and military enforcing saddams brutalistic regime.
btw the Iraqi air force is never allowed to fly, except during war, so the pilots cant escape Iraq.
And HELLO! Even your own govenment PR doesn't try to suggest that they invaded Iraq because of Sept 11th. What has Iraq got to do with it?
I never made that conection, it was my reply to ur statement, And if that "one child" had been an American who had lost his family and his arms in an unnecessary attack it WOULD be treated like the world had come to an end. not once did i conect it with Iraq YOU did that
(oh, but they all look the same...)
[sarcasm]really is that what you think, are you anti war to hide ur racism?[/sarcasm]
but yes, to us, muslims do all look the same, just as to them, we all look the same.
There are more terrorists known to be living in the UK & America than Iraq.
never in the same sentence have i mentioned Iraq and terrists, lets face it, you are clutching at straws now.
France said it would block every move by the US to start a waris saw as unjust and unnecessary, not every move to help the Iraqi people. Big difference.
a big difference sooo great that around 50% (offical french poll) french people support saddam and hope he wins.
lost all order in this post now but
What right do we have to impose our standards on them?
we dont but what right did saddam have to impose his standards on them?
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Whatever your politics, you gotta admit, the locals looked mighty happy to have the boys in town.😀 I'm sure in future days the arguments will accumulate here as to why this is bad, of this I have no doubt. Anyway, the name Master Sargent Rene "Al" LaPointe should'nt mean anything to most of you, but he is RHP's very own Charlie92, and he rode into Baghdad in an Abrahms with the 3rd infantry last week, and his family is proud of him beyond words. He's been baking in the Middle East for 6 months now, and when he gets back throw him a game or two, and acknowledge him for putting his ass on the line for what he believes is right. Its one thing to sit here and theorize day and night on right and wrong, as we all do, myself included. Its another thing to act on your beliefs. God bless you little brother, come home soon.🙂