General
06 Jun 19
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07 Jun 19
@wolfgang59 saidYou must be very proud. Those "soft-underbelly" campaigns were frequently grim.
My father served in North Africa, then Italy, then France.
He never wanted to talk about any of it.
My sister called him a hero but he dismissed it.
My father was of an age when you did your duty.
- Joined
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07 Jun 19
My dad (who passed away last October, well into his 102nd year) was with the 17th Hussars and involved in the D-Day invasion. He was the driver of a Bren Gun Carrier attached to the reconnaissance group who job it was to find out where the enemy were and report it back to headquarters. I often asked him about his experience and he would tell me some of the "funny" bits (when in Holland, after the Germans had flooded the area) how a buddy of his had managed to get a bunch of German paraphernalia (a machine gun ammo belt, a rifle and some odds and sods) who was walking across a board bridge, when he fell into the water and would not give up his loot. Dad had to jump in and save the man. When I asked him about the "real" war he simply said "Steve, it was hell" and nothing more. He was MY hero.
07 Jun 19
@great-big-stees saidHe was a Hero indeed! Nice story.
My dad (who passed away last October, well into his 102nd year) was with the 17th Hussars and involved in the D-Day invasion. He was the driver of a Bren Gun Carrier attached to the reconnaissance group who job it was to find out where the enemy were and report it back to headquarters. I often asked him about his experience and he would tell me some of the "funny" bi ...[text shortened]... asked him about the "real" war he simply said "Steve, it was hell" and nothing more. He was MY hero.
-VR
@great-big-stees saidAn hero with the rest of the heroes, thanks for sharing Steve.
My dad (who passed away last October, well into his 102nd year) was with the 17th Hussars and involved in the D-Day invasion. He was the driver of a Bren Gun Carrier attached to the reconnaissance group who job it was to find out where the enemy were and report it back to headquarters. I often asked him about his experience and he would tell me some of the "funny" bi ...[text shortened]... asked him about the "real" war he simply said "Steve, it was hell" and nothing more. He was MY hero.
I wonder if he knew any of those Americans as discovered and described by duchess64 in the debates forum.
07 Jun 19
@great-big-stees saidSmall world? My dad was in Bren Gun Carriers.
My dad (who passed away last October, well into his 102nd year) was with the 17th Hussars and involved in the D-Day invasion. He was the driver of a Bren Gun Carrier attached to the reconnaissance group who job it was to find out where the enemy were and report it back to headquarters. I often asked him about his experience and he would tell me some of the "funny" bi ...[text shortened]... asked him about the "real" war he simply said "Steve, it was hell" and nothing more. He was MY hero.
Mainly with the Desert Rats.
Rose to Sergeant and "mentioned in dispatches".
Got knocked down to corporal for being drunk!
The only stories he told were not about fighting.
One was of looting an Italian Villa.
He got away with some Roman coins which he
got ripped off for in UK when he returned.
He also told us of the superior food the US had
which he enjoyed when attached to them in Italy.
He said in the desert the labels would fall away
from the tinned food and you didn't know what
you were going to get. A stew of bully beef and
peaches was one of his favourites!
@wolfgang59 saidSo much for growing up in an age where one did one's duty.
The only stories he told were not about fighting.
One was of looting an Italian Villa.
He got away with some Roman coins which he
got ripped off for in UK when he returned.
@chaney3 saidThree out of five of the men who landed in France on D-Day were British or Canadian. The landing craft on all five beaches were mostly driven by coxswains from the British navy. A majority of the ships and planes used for the assault on D-Day were British.
Your minimizing the role of the U.S. is an insult, and factually incorrect.
The British and the Canadians were assigned the eastern flank of the intended bridgehead because that was where the toughest battles were expected to be (see Battle for Caen) as German reinforcements arrived from north France and elsewhere.
I am not minimizing the role of the U.S. in D-Day. I am not "minimizing" it. I am not being "factually incorrect". And I am not insulting the U.S.
Indeed, in the post that you were ostensibly replying to, I said that I am grateful to the U.S. for their contribution and the part they played in D-Day. I do so out of respect for the American dead and wounded.
@fmf saidIf you claim that only 40% of the troops landing on the beach were American, yes, you are minimizing American involvement.
Three out of five of the men who landed in France on D-Day were British or Canadian. The landing craft on all five beaches were mostly driven by coxswains from the British navy. A majority of the ships and planes used for the assault on D-Day were British.
The British and the Canadians were assigned the eastern flank of the intended bridgehead because that was where the tough ...[text shortened]... ibution and the part they played in D-Day. I do so out of respect for the American dead and wounded.
Out of 156,115 men in the First Army (Americans) and Second Army (British and Canadians), the First Army consisted of 73,000 men, while the Second Army consisted of 83,115 men (61,715 of whom were British). This made the US contingent 46.76%, not 40%.
08 Jun 19
@suzianne saidWithout getting down to decimal places of percentages the US
If you claim that only 40% of the troops landing on the beach were American, yes, you are minimizing American involvement.
Out of 156,115 men in the First Army (Americans) and Second Army (British and Canadians), the First Army consisted of 73,000 men, while the Second Army consisted of 83,115 men (61,715 of whom were British). This made the US contingent 46.76%, not 40%.
involvement was not 100% as Hollywood portrays it and some think it.
Remember Naval support was almost entirely British with over
100,000 Royal Navy seamen involved. Perhaps FMF's figures
include naval & air support?
08 Jun 19
@wolfe63 saidMy maternal grandmother said he came back a different man.
You must be very proud. Those "soft-underbelly" campaigns were frequently grim.
He would ridicule every war movie on tv.
Loved the most ridiculous Westerns though!
08 Jun 19
@suzianne saidMy understanding of it is that by midnight at the end of D-Day, around 132,000 Allied forces had landed in France, approximately 3 out 5 of which were British and Canadian.
Out of 156,115 men in the First Army (Americans) and Second Army (British and Canadians), the First Army consisted of 73,000 men, while the Second Army consisted of 83,115 men (61,715 of whom were British). This made the US contingent 46.76%, not 40%.
This obviously does not include men from the First Army and Second Army who landed in France on D-Day +1 and thereafter. While both Armies are listed in the order of battle, the entire First and Second Armies did not land in France on D-Day itself.
I think you will find that elements of each Army were still arriving in France in the days after 6th June.
I am grateful to the Americans for the contribution and sacrifices they made on D-Day.
08 Jun 19
@wolfgang59 saidI have acknowledged the contribution of the RAF and RN and that is one of the reasons why I asserted that D-Day was predominantly a British and Canadian operation.
Remember Naval support was almost entirely British with over
100,000 Royal Navy seamen involved. Perhaps FMF's figures
include naval & air support?
As for my "3 out of 5" assertion, that was with regard to men who landed in France on D-Day which does not include 'naval & air support'.
For the landings on the 6th June, it is a wee bit of an error [I'd say] to simply tot up the numbers in the order of battle and thus assume that the entire First and Second Armies landed in France on D-Day.
I am only talking about D-Day itself as I thought that was the topic.
To have run up Omaha beach on the morning of 6th June is a whole different thing from running up that beach on 7th June.
While the vast bulk of the First and Second Armies landed on the beaches or by parachute on 6th June, someone from the First or Second Armies who landed in France on subsequent days can claim they were part of Operation Overlord, but they can't say they landed in France on D-Day.
@wolfgang59 saidSuzianne has a point. While Saving Private Ryan was, overall, a very disappointing 1950s style sentimental film of the Audie Murphy ilk [for which I believe Hanks and Spielberg, to a degree, made amends with the superior Band of Brothers], I think the opening beach landing scene serves an eye-opening purpose in so far as how visceral and brutal and completely non-sentimental it is.
That was a Hollywood film ...
@fmf saidTotally agree.
Suzianne has a point. While Saving Private Ryan was, overall, a very disappointing 1950s style sentimental film of the Audie Murphy ilk [for which I believe Hanks and Spielberg, to a degree, made amends with the superior Band of Brothers], I think the opening beach landing scene serves an eye-opening purpose in so far as how visceral and brutal and completely non-sentimental it is.
I can't imagine anyone on those beaches was ever the same again.