25 Aug 03
Originally posted by ivanhoefaith. it's in one of the gospels-a begger (lazerus?) sits outside a rich mans house, and the rich man ignores him etc-treats him like dirt. when they die, the begger goes the heaven, the rich man to hell. when he's there, he calls out to god telling him to warn his family about hell etc.-send a messanger or summant. but god replies that if they can't beleive the work of the prophets, elijah and such, then they wouldn't beleive that. similarly-would you honestly beleive that god had an office in london? trully? when you ignore all the miricles that he perfoms every day?
"If God wanted us to believe... he would have an office in New York or London." StarValleyWy.
Great !! 😀
IvanH.
25 Aug 03
1 edit
Originally posted by genius
faith. it's in one of the gospels-a begger (lazerus?) sits outside a rich mans house, and the rich man ignores him etc-treats him like dirt. when they die, the begger goes the heaven, the rich man to hell. when he's there, he calls out to ...[text shortened]... rully? when you ignore all the miricles that he perfoms every day?
Does God have a good sense of humour ?
Of course He's got a good sense of humour, He made you, didn't He !!
😉 😀
IvanH.
25 Aug 03
Originally posted by geniusThere are two answers. A humorous one and a serious one. If the being who created 50 Billion Galaxies, ie, our universe had an office anywhere I would believe. Because every time he wanted to tell us something, we all would be standing in front of him/her/it whether we wanted to or not. The reasoning is that god can do anything and everything. So God, if he wanted to tell us something could tell us in person or use the TV airwaves. There would be no trouble recognizing him because we would have no choice. If he wants us to believe... he will not let us mistake his identity. What advantage to God to letting us remain ignorant? He has already built the universe. Why play games with a bunch of very, very elementary beings that need help, not confusion. Either he tinkers with us or he doesn't. If he made us, he sure can tinker too. But if he doesn't tinker... then the office in NYC is a waste of his time. Nothing for it but to accept that we are just amusements that are no longer interesting or worthwhile.
faith. it's in one of the gospels-a begger (lazerus?) sits outside a rich mans house, and the rich man ignores him etc-treats him like dirt. when they die, the begger goes the heaven, the rich man to hell. when he's there, he calls out to god telling him to warn his family about hell etc.-send a messanger or summant. but god replies that if they can't bele ...[text shortened]... god had an office in london? trully? when you ignore all the miricles that he perfoms every day?
On the humorous side... Would I really believe, even if God had an office where I could visit him? Probably. I have met Ted Kennedy twice and i believed it was him on only the second visit.😲
25 Aug 03
3 edits
Originally posted by StarValleyWya bit like lazerus: to pharisees and sadusees who demand a miracle"no! the only miracle you will be given is the miracle of jonah"
There are two answers. A humorous one and a serious one. If the being who created 50 Billion Galaxies, ie, our universe had an office anywhere I would believe. Because every time he wanted to tell us something, we all would be standing ...[text shortened]... ennedy twice and i believed it was him on only the second visit.😲
o.k.-lets take the office bit away. lets say he come to your front door, and he raises your brother from the dead. do you beleive? he comes to your front door, and cured your mum of her illness. do you beleive? he cured you of blindness. do you beleive? it's happened. and you don't... god gives us the option of choice. we probubly would recognise him as god, but we could, and often would, choose to deny it.
read matthew 9 v2.
they didn't beleive either...
also-you said that religion brings great joy to those involved in it. why, praytell, does knowing where the universe came from not give the same joy to those who know it?
25 Aug 03
1 edit
Originally posted by geniusI would do better than that. I would have no doubt's whatsoever because if God wants me to believe... i'm going to believe. Don't forget ... he created the universe... that includes me. Right? Why would i not believe? Is there some reason why he would want me to be skeptical? None that i can think of. I would fall down worshiping in a second. It would be God at the front door after all.
o.k.-lets take the office bit away. lets say he come to your front door, and he raises your brother from the dead. do you beleive? he comes to your front door, and cured your mum of her illness. do you beleive? he cured 11 lepers of their di ...[text shortened]... nise him as god, but we could, and often would, choose to deny it.
I'm waiting. Every time to door bell rings, i'll expect it to be god. There are some issues i have with him, so i really wish he would show up. I don't think he cares about my issues though. Still... you gotta admit it would be good to meet him and finally know why he created the devil, war and misery. There has to be a reason. If he just lets us do as we please... and all that evil and misery is made by us... then we are right back to where i started. "If he wanted us to believe, he would have an office in New York or London."
Waiting patiently,
Mike
25 Aug 03
Originally posted by StarValleyWychoice. he didn't create the devil, the devil decide to be evil type thing-he thought he was better than god or summant. he is your oposition to god. and god is here. he's everywhere. omnipresent. it's called the hold spirit. have faith, and all your prayes shall be answered. the faith of a child. blind faith. methinks you don't have that faith...perhaps, if you trully and uterlly beleive that god was at your door, he would be there. did he not say that your faith could move mountains? have faith.
I would do better than that. I would have no doubt's whatsoever because if God wants me to believe... i'm going to believe. Don't forget ... he created the universe... that includes me. Right? Why would i not believe? Is there some reason why he would want me to be skeptical? None that i can think of. I would fall down worshiping in a second. It woul ...[text shortened]... nted us to believe, he would have an office in New York or London."
Waiting patiently,
Mike
25 Aug 03
1 edit
Originally posted by geniusYou are right. All my faith was beaten out of me by a holy man by the time i was three years old. God revealed several times to several holy men that God was on the side of this sadistic bastard by talking to elders of the church and letting them know that "The child is wrong. That good man is leader of the sunday school! He could never do what he is accused of. He holds the Priesthood. Let's not speak of this again."
choice. he didn't create the devil, the devil decide to be evil type thing-he thought he was better than god or summant. he is your oposition to god. and god is here. he's everywhere. omnipresent. it's called the hold spirit. have faith, ...[text shortened]... . did he not say that your faith could move mountains? have faith.
Faith is the only way to build relationships with our fellow humans. It took me years to learn to do that simple task. Having done it, i know the difference between "faith in reality" and "faith in myth". All i can do is be true. If i lose my grip on reality, i am done for as a person.
25 Aug 03
Originally posted by geniusIf god is everywhere then he is the biggest screw-up that could ever be. If the devil can decide... then by god, so can I. Call him Holy Or Spirit or Rover. Matters not to me. Myth is still myth. I owe the dude nothing. My door is where it always is. Equipment moves more mountains than faith. If you don't believe me, you "faith" a mountain to the left three feet and i'll happily move it back using heavy equipment.
choice. he didn't create the devil, the devil decide to be evil type thing-he thought he was better than god or summant. he is your oposition to god. and god is here. he's everywhere. omnipresent. it's called the hold spirit. have faith, and all your prayes shall be answered. the faith of a child. blind faith. methinks you don't have that faith...perhaps, ...[text shortened]... t your door, he would be there. did he not say that your faith could move mountains? have faith.
25 Aug 03
Originally posted by rwingettGiven recent performance, doesn't it take more faith to be a Tigers fan than it does even to be a slight Red Sox fan such as myself?
Angels have existed since 1961. But it took them until 2002 to win a World Series. I don't "believe" in them though, I'm a Tigers fan. 😀
26 Aug 03
Originally posted by royalchickenNo. The Tigers do demonstrate their existence every twenty years, or so, and quiet the naysayers. Being a Red Sox fan is like being Jewish. You're always waiting for your messiah, who never seems to arrive.
Given recent performance, doesn't it take more faith to be a Tigers fan than it does even to be a slight Red Sox fan such as myself?