Originally posted by Starrmanit's the 'provided that' that is the problem with this. the only difference between your position and other people's, is that they have different "provided that"s - 'provided that it is not obscene' etc. why should people accept your 'provided that' and not someone else's?
I heard Rowan Atkinson say something yesterday which I can't get out of my head. He said "The right to offend is far more important than the right to be offended" I wish more people understood the world in a way that they can see the sense in this. Free speech is just about the only important thing modern society has going for it these days and provide ...[text shortened]... e completely with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death, your right to say it."
as for the Voltaire quote: are you prepared to 'defend to the death' soemone's right to say something you disagree with? really? defend to the death?
Originally posted by dfm65Because one is a matter of taste, the other is a matter of violence and violence has no place anywhere. I'm talking about offending principles here, not acts of physical action. Free speech does not mean encouraging people to hurt, belittle or oppress, it means the right to put your opinion across and there is a difference between an opinion and an instruction on hate.
it's the 'provided that' that is the problem with this. the only difference between your position and other people's, is that they have different "provided that"s - 'provided that it is not obscene' etc. why should people accept your 'provided that' and not someone else's?
as for the Voltaire quote: are you prepared to 'defend to the death' soemone's right to say something you disagree with? really? defend to the death?
As to the Voltaire quote it was flippant and thrown in without much regard, I hereby retract it. Perhaps it should have said I will defend your right to say whatever you like as long as I don't get hurt 😛
Shavix wants to shave his nuts, and bang beasts online at RHP. Elven dream wants to talk sexy on RHP, but will complain when she feels she's sexually harassed. Other users jump in with Sh!t this and Fuhk that. Next, after seeing this... someone else comes along to try and out do them.
Next, after that... you will see tons of threads started, each trying to be more racy than the last, since the first ones got through.
Where is the line drawn? Free speech is abused, and everyone tries to see what they can get away with next. Next, people search for crap online at Yahoo or Google, and Red Hot Pawn comes up with tons of sexual crap, fart jokes... etc... and the site is just a fricken mess.
Russ is trying to avoid that, but you guys want the right to say what you please here at RHP... it is not enough to go to FW and post there, because only the thick skinned people bother to post there. They want to shock the heck out of people at RHP, and saying what you like is not enough if there are not people to be offended at another site where anything goes.
I find it very funny when people type up these shock posts, and complain that they were removed, knowing full well they would be removed from this public forum. They put so much work into their posts, and wonder 'why was MY post erased'?! Others come in and complain about someone else's post being erased, and how boring the forums are.
There is a reason the forums are moderated, so they won't need to be shut down. Once user A says this, user B has to try and out do that. RHP forums are for sharing ideas, but there is always going to be someone who wants to take it to the next level. New users will come in and see what is going on, and they will start posting about how they shave their ass, or anyone who watches Nascar dated their sister at the prom. More insults will fly, more people will get upset... and so on.
On top of that, it is the code Russ wrote that catches key words that HE wants alerted. Someone else alerts the post, and with one or 3 clicks it is gone depending on the content of the post. Everyone wants to blame the mods for that, when it was Russ Code and another user working together forcing RoboMod to erase a post. Everyone also likes to blame me, since I am vocal about what is going on with the moderation team, and RoboMod. I don’t even need to alert or hide anything, and am still a target.
If you don’t get a message about why a post was removed, it is because RoboMod and N number users at RHP alerted your post. Half the time you shouldn’t even need a message why your thread was removed, you knew it would be… didn’t you?
That is all I have to say about that.
P
The internet is immense. There are plenty of places where you can post whatever you like (and not all as aggressive as forum wars).
Nobody has a right to post what they like to any site - the owners decide that.
But posters can vote with their feet and go elsewhere if they feel the tone of the site doesn't reflect their views.
Calm down Phlab!
Originally posted by VargI thought about all caps... that wouldn't work!
The internet is immense. There are plenty of places where you can post whatever you like (and not all as aggressive as forum wars).
Nobody has a right to post what they like to any site - the owners decide that.
But posters can vote with their feet and go elsewhere if they feel the tone of the site doesn't reflect their views.
Calm down Phlab!
😉
I'm not 'gone nuts'... I'm just trying to post how I think things build up from one stage to another, and why some moderation is required.
P
Originally posted by PhlabibitI presume you wouldn't complain about something taken straight from the Beano like 'confound you, you rotter". But what's to stop that escalating? By your logic people will try to 'outdo' this post, and eventually we'll end up with insults flying anyway. It's just starting lower down the scale.
Other users jump in with Sh!t this and Fuhk that. Next, after seeing this... someone else comes along to try and out do them.
Next, after that... you will see tons of threads started, each trying to be more racy than the last, since the first ones got through.
Perhaps we shoudl just ban words from the forum lest they insult or offend someone.
Originally posted by PhlabibitI posted an article on me killong a rat. That wasn't censored.
Shavix wants to shave his nuts, and bang beasts online at RHP. Elven dream wants to talk sexy on RHP, but will complain when she feels she's sexually harassed. Other users jump in with Sh!t this and Fuhk that. Next, after seeing this... someone else comes along to try and out do them.
Next, after that... you will see tons of threads started, eac ...[text shortened]... was removed, you knew it would be… didn’t you?
That is all I have to say about that.
P
I didn't see tons of people posting articles on catching cats and dogs in the after-wave of it though...did you?
😉
Originally posted by jimmyb270There is a huge space of acceptable posts that lay between 'confound you' and 'eat sh!t, you idiot'.
I presume you wouldn't complain about something taken straight from the Beano like 'confound you, you rotter". But what's to stop that escalating? By your logic people will try to 'outdo' this post, and eventually we'll end up with insults flying anyway. It's just starting lower down the scale.
Perhaps we shoudl just ban words from the forum lest they insult or offend someone.
Russ has tried to define the line, and the mods try to keep it under the line.
P
Originally posted by shavixmirI started to write one, but yet again I just couldn't click the post button.
I posted an article on me killong a rat. That wasn't censored.
I didn't see tons of people posting articles on catching cats and dogs in the after-wave of it though...did you?
😉
😉
P
Originally posted by PhlabibitThere is indeed a huge space between the two. There's also a huge difference between a monkey and me, but one did indeed evolve into the other.
There is a huge space of acceptable posts that lay between 'confound you' and 'eat sh!t, you idiot'.
Russ has tried to define the line, and the mods try to keep it under the line.
P
The way your argument is stated, slightly offensive posts will erupt into immensely offensive ones. Who are you to draw the line where that evolution will begin?
Originally posted by jimmyb270Again, I did not draw the line. Russ did that. Use Site Feedback if you like, I'd be interested in hearing what you get back.
There is indeed a huge space between the two. There's also a huge difference between a monkey and me, but one did indeed evolve into the other.
The way your argument is stated, slightly offensive posts will erupt into immensely offensive ones. Who are you to draw the line where that evolution will begin?
P