20 Aug 09
Originally posted by SuzianneLook, this patrotic antagonism is beneath the educated minds of a chess playing community.
I'm just saying that even those countries spelling it "aluminium", spell the oxide "alumina". Seems to me they are the ones facing a dichotomy.
Keep it simple. Aluminium was first described by Humphrey Davy.
He's British. He decided how to spell it.
So we're right the Americans are wrong 🙂
20 Aug 09
Originally posted by Suzianne-ium is the most common suffix for metal elements like iridium, uranium, helium, tellurium, etc... You have to note that in the word aluminium, the suffix is the whole -ium. So -a is just a difference suffix for the same root.
I'm just saying that even those countries spelling it "aluminium", spell the oxide "alumina". Seems to me they are the ones facing a dichotomy.
20 Aug 09
Originally posted by PolicestateNice try, wiseass.
Look, this patrotic antagonism is beneath the educated minds of a chess playing community.
Keep it simple. Aluminium was first described by Humphrey Davy.
He's British. He decided how to spell it.
So we're right the Americans are wrong 🙂
Davy spelled it ALUMINUM.
Go look it up.
20 Aug 09
Originally posted by PalynkaYou missed this Wikipedia bit, probably because it's found under "aluminum", not "aluminium".
-ium is the most common suffix for metal elements like iridium, uranium, helium, tellurium, etc... You have to note that in the word aluminium, the suffix is the whole -ium. So -a is just a difference suffix for the same root.
"The -ium suffix had the advantage of conforming to the precedent set in other newly discovered elements of the time: potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, and strontium... Nevertheless, -um spellings for elements were not unknown at the time, as for example platinum, known to Europeans since the sixteenth century, molybdenum, discovered in 1778, and tantalum, discovered in 1802.
The -um suffix on the other hand, has the advantage of being more consistent with the universal spelling alumina for the oxide, as lanthana is the oxide of lanthanum, and magnesia, ceria, and thoria are the oxides of magnesium, cerium, and thorium respectively."
20 Aug 09
Originally posted by SuzianneThe whole suffix is -ium, so there is NO ADDED CONSISTENCY in adding the i to another suffix (so basically you have something between the root and the suffix) or even having a suffix that also starts with -i. The latter can happen but it's not a consistency issue.
You missed this Wikipedia bit, probably because it's found under "aluminum", not "aluminium".
"The -ium suffix had the advantage of conforming to the precedent set in other newly discovered elements of the time: potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, and strontium... Nevertheless, -um spellings for elements were not unknown at the time, as for example pl ...[text shortened]... gnesia, ceria, and thoria are the oxides of magnesium, cerium, and thorium respectively."
Is -um even an original Latin suffix or already an historical distortion? For example, it's not here:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Latin_suffixes
20 Aug 09
1 edit
http://www.world-aluminium.org/About+Aluminium/Story+of
The International Aluminium Institute
In 1808 Sir Humphrey Davy proposed the name ALUMIUM for the metal. This rather unwieldy name was soon replaced by ALUMINUM and later the word ALUMINIUM was adopted by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemists in order to conform with the "ium" ending of most elements. By the mid-1800s both spellings were in use.
Edit BTW, it seems Davy originally proposed alumium. 😵
20 Aug 09
Originally posted by SuzianneMy dear I was being lighthearted, not a wise bottom (fanny?)
Nice try, wiseass.
Davy spelled it ALUMINUM.
Go look it up.
And it seems you are right. If we hooked up webcams you would now see me bowing humbly.
And I thought I knew everything there was to know about Alu...however you want to spell it, but did you know:
Aqueous Aluminium ions (such as found in aqueous Aluminium Sulfate) are use to treat against fish parasites such as Gyrodactylus salaris.
Wikipedia can make me seem quite intelligent 🙂
20 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaAt first, yes.
http://www.world-aluminium.org/About+Aluminium/Story+of
The International Aluminium Institute
In 1808 Sir Humphrey Davy proposed the name ALUMIUM for the metal. This rather unwieldy name was soon replaced by ALUMINUM and later the word ALUMINIUM was adopted by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemists [b]in order to conform with the "ium" e ...[text shortened]... both spellings were in use.
Edit BTW, it seems Davy originally proposed alumium. 😵[/b]
Wikipedia also says:
"The earliest citation given in the Oxford English Dictionary for any word used as a name for this element is alumium, which British chemist and inventor Humphry Davy employed in 1808 for the metal he was trying to isolate electrolytically from the mineral alumina. The citation is from his journal Philosophical Transactions: "Had I been so fortunate as..to have procured the metallic substances I was in search of, I should have proposed for them the names of silicium, alumium, zirconium, and glucium."
By 1812, Davy had settled on aluminum. He wrote in the journal Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state." But the same year, an anonymous contributor to the Quarterly Review, a British political-literary journal, objected to aluminum and proposed the name aluminium, "for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound.""
Even though there are plenty of elements with an "-um" ending.
20 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by SuzianneSo we agree? 😛
At first, yes.
Wikipedia also says:
"The earliest citation given in the Oxford English Dictionary for any word used as a name for this element is alumium, which British chemist and inventor Humphry Davy employed in 1808 for the metal he was trying to isolate electrolytically from the mineral alumina. The citation is from his journal Philosophical Tran s classical sound.""
Even though there are plenty of elements with an "-um" ending.
Just kidding, let's bang our heads against each other for 50 posts more.
20 Aug 09
Originally posted by PalynkaThis does seem to be a good argument. The only thing I see is a lot of dictionaries call the "-um" suffix "New Latin", whatever that is.
The whole suffix is -ium, so there is NO ADDED CONSISTENCY in adding the i to another suffix (so basically you have something between the root and the suffix) or even having a suffix that also starts with -i. The latter can happen but it's not a consistency issue.
Is -um even an original Latin suffix or already an historical distortion? For example, it's not here:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Latin_suffixes
So, do you propose that platinum be called platinium? or tantalum be called tantalium? or molybdenum be called molybdenium?
Also, I must admit that in America, both spellings were used up until 1926, when the American Chemical Society officially decided to use "aluminum" in its publications. After that, "aluminium" rapidly fell out of use.
20 Aug 09
Originally posted by Policestatehehe, well, it seems I was only half right (kinda).
My dear I was being lighthearted, not a wise bottom (fanny?)
And it seems you are right. If we hooked up webcams you would now see me bowing humbly.
And I thought I knew everything there was to know about Alu...however you want to spell it, but did you know:
Aqueous Aluminium ions (such as found in aqueous Aluminium Sulfate) are use to treat aga ...[text shortened]... fish parasites such as Gyrodactylus salaris.
Wikipedia can make me seem quite intelligent 🙂
I'm surprised the aluminum ions don't hurt the fish as well, or at least build up in their systems like mercury will.