I also play the Caro-Kann. It compares to the French because of the pawn structure, but as already mentioned, you can eliminate the bad bishop with the C-K. This is a real plus for me. However, this is counter-balanced because in many situations Black needs to play c5 to open the game up and undermine White's pawn chain. In the C-K, Black loses a tempo because he has already played c6, whereas in the French he is playing c7-c5. One variation of the C-K blocks the bishop on c8 anyway after
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nd7 4.Nf3 Ngf6 ...
This variation, which I believe is named the Petrosian-Smyslov System, was played very often by GM Karpov, and is noted for being very hard to force structural weakness onto Black. On the other hand, Black almost always has to weather some attack after White plays his knight to e5. My experience has been that White will become frustrated if you are able to keep your nerves together as Black, then the pieces will be traded and Black will get his chances in the endgame.
As for White getting bored, I don't understand this after looking over some games between GM Kasparov and GM Karpov. GM Kasparov found ways to throw everything at Karpov with bold advances like an early g4 so it seems the game can become pretty wide open if White has the stomach for it. Finding GM Kasparov's game scores online shouldn't be much of a challenge if you want to learn some of those lines.
Good Luck.
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Originally posted by scandiumwithout too much theory. Honestly i despair. There is no opening ever played without too much theory. If it's reams of variations you don't like then try draughts.
Seems to be a popular topic lately. My impression is that its a solid opening without too much theory. As has been said already, black aims - at least in the mainline - to compel exchanges and win the ending with his Qside majority. You could probably do worse than to buy a book on Karpov's games, as he played it often, and play through them to see how a former WC handles it.
Originally posted by TalismanI agree. All openings that are good require lots of study. With White, you can avoid studying much theory by playing something like the London System (1 d4 2 Nf3 3 Bf4), but don't count on getting an advantage in the opening stage of the game too often if you play it. With Black, if you don't study opening theory you will consistently get an inferior game when you start to play against stronger players.
without too much theory. Honestly i despair. There is no opening ever played without too much theory. If it's reams of variations you don't like then try draughts.
perhaps... however if your a stronger player, then taking another player completely out of book from the beginning may be winning as well. Opening play is just known sound systems that we've built. That said, they're probably the strongest systems that exist.
However, if you surprise your opponent enough, and force them into an uncomfortable situation in which they have to out reason you, you may beat them just off pure tactics.
in theory?
Originally posted by AdoreaGood point. If you're the inferior player, then "randomizing" the position should help you more than your opponent.
However, if you surprise your opponent enough, and force them into an uncomfortable situation in which they have to out reason you, you may beat them just off pure tactics....
Your point that "you may beat them just off pure tactics" is quite valid. The problem is that the player with the better position is far more likely to launch a successful tactic. And usually the player with the better opening position, if he is a better player, will usually maintain his positional edge throughout the whole game.
Originally posted by SquelchbelchBlack can equalize in about 5 different ways.
The Caro-Kann is a real pig to face as White if you want a nice open, tactical game.
Nigel Davies suggests the Fantasy Variation:
1.e4...c6 2.d4...d5 3.f3
[fen]rnbqkbnr/pp2pppp/2p5/3p4/3PP3/5P2/PPP3PP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1[/fen]
Thoughts from anyone with experience playing either side of this?
No point in playing it unless you're really sure your opponent does not know it and he will screw up.
Originally posted by schakuhrMaybe I could try 1.e4...c6 2.b3...d5 3.Bb2...dxe4 4.Nc3 kind of like a Réti gambit in the French?
Black can equalize in about 5 different ways.
No point in playing it unless you're really sure your opponent does not know it and he will screw up.
Intending Qe2/0-0-0/KS pawn advances.
Perhaps a guy playing the Caro-Kann might not like these sorts of ideas.
Originally posted by SquelchbelchYou should play what you're good at.. there are so many replies vs the caro-kann, there is almost anything for anyone. If you want to attack you could try the panov attack, or the exchange variation with Bd3.
Maybe I could try 1.e4...c6 2.b3...d5 3.Bb2...dxe4 4.Nc3 kind of like a Réti gambit in the French?
[fen]rnbqkbnr/pp2pppp/2p5/8/4p3/1PN5/PBPP1PPP/R2QKBNR w KQkq - 0 1[/fen]
Intending Qe2/0-0-0/KS pawn advances.
Perhaps a guy playing the Caro-Kann might not like these sorts of ideas.
If you're familiar with kings indian structures you could try 2 knight's defense or 2. d3.
if you want to try to make something out of a small advantage without risk of losing you can just play the classical carokann.
And you can try your offbeat gambit if it suits you 😉
Originally posted by schakuhrI've had acceptable results with the Fantasy Variation in blitz, but I agree that Black can equalize if he knows what he is doing. For example, after 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 f3 de 4 fe e5! 5 Nf3 (forced) Be6!, Black is doing fine.
Black can equalize in about 5 different ways.
No point in playing it unless you're really sure your opponent does not know it and he will screw up.
edit: White can transpose into the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit in the above line by playing 4 Nc3 (instead of 4 fe).
Originally posted by gaychessplayerI disagree !
I agree. All openings that are good require lots of study. With Black, if you don't study opening theory you will consistently get an inferior game when you start to play against stronger players.
this miracle opening for black to avoid too much theory and have a good game does exist ! Often leading to the same kind of play and pawn strucure as the caro-kann, but much more forcing : 1...d5 the scandinavian
I don't play it myself (i'm not scared of theory) but i definitely recommend it for low to average players who don't want to put time in learning openings...
It's the only opening wherethere's so few good alternatives for white!
In the caro-kann, besides the normal setup, you must know the advance, the panov, and some correct sidelines (2 knights, exchange with Bd3, fantasy variation etc) which all lead to very different kind of play
None of such in the scandinavian ! 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 almost forced Qxd5 (more positionnal and less forcing than Nf6, so less to learn) 3.Nc3 and now if you like the caro-kann quiet and solid structure, you can reach it with Qa5 without white being able to easily sidestep. (black play often develops like Bf5 c6 e6 Nf6 Qc7 Nd7 and now hard to tell the difference with a caro-kann!)
Originally posted by shorbockI have played the scandinavian and I don't quite agree that you will get a comfortable game even if you don't know any theory.
I disagree !
this miracle opening for black to avoid too much theory and have a good game does exist ! Often leading to the same kind of play and pawn strucure as the caro-kann, but much more forcing : 1...d5 the scandinavian
I don't play it myself (i'm not scared of theory) but i definitely recommend it for low to average players who don't want to put ...[text shortened]... develops like Bf5 c6 e6 Nf6 Qc7 Nd7 and now hard to tell the difference with a caro-kann!)
The difference with the caro-kann is that black will recapture on d5 with a pawn if white exchanges.
I guess in case of 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 the pawn structure will become the same but the knight on e4 makes the play alot different.