Only Chess
27 Dec 05
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by DeepThoughtUtter nonsense. I may have 10,000 or more engine games in my database of 2.6 million games. A mere drop of piss among the dew.
Umm., I remember the site game moderators saying that it's your responsibility to [b]avoid using these lines in another thread. My database is similar and I simply look at the game list and use human names I recognise as authorities on what's a good move.[/b]
Fewer than 1% of my games that follow databases have followed an engine game. Even if a book line peters out into following one game, and that an engine vs. engine game, what are the odds that my opponent will continue to play like the engine that lost? If my side lost, I should deviate, don't you think?
Nevertheless, I play against my computer almost daily, and often study computer games. I cannot exclude all this influence when I play OTB; why should I do so when I play correspondence?
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by XanthosNZcorrespondence.
If you are playing under correspondance conditions unless stated otherwise I would assume that correspondance rules apply. Therefore, books and databases yes, engines no. What if during the game you wish to play an OTB tournament and want to do some study on an opening? The same opening you are playing in the email game?
Also, you said it yourself, there is no rule about delaying your move so it can't be cheating.
D
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveThat would be because you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
What's the point in playing any type of chess if you are copying moves from a database?
Regardless of "rules" that people hide behind to justify it it is pathetic in my opinion.
Its unfortunate, but ignorance can often lead to people having strong emotions about something, when in reality they are completely clueless about whats going on.
D
30 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by WulebgrGatecrasher was quite clear about this I remember. Essentially the problem is that it's rather hard for the Games Mods to distinguish engine use from people using engine generated openings from databases. Their advice was to avoid following lines which are, or may be, engine generated to avoid being accidentally banned as a cheat.
Utter nonsense. I may have 10,000 or more engine games in my database of 2.6 million games. A mere drop of piss among the dew.
Fewer than 1% of my games that follow databases have followed an engine game. Even if a book line peters out into following one game, and that an engine vs. engine game, what are the odds that my opponent will continue to play lik nnot exclude all this influence when I play OTB; why should I do so when I play correspondence?
Edit: Here is a link to what Gatecrasher actually said:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=29130&page=2
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by more guinnessTake a look at their profile. Some of us state that we use databases/books, and you can always ask.
At the least,it might be worth knowing at the start of a game if one's opponent will be consulting any books or databases. One should know the "rules" for the individual game in question, if for no other reason than knowing what one's playing against, right?
30 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveThe question was rhetorical. Then, you called me pathetic, which I don't take too kindly to, especially by somebody who hasn't even got one iota of a clue about something which he apparently feels so strongly about to call thousands of people on the site pathetic.
Did you see the ????????? It means that it was a question.
Please explain the point of copying moves from databases.
D
[EDIT] Before I answer your "question", could you please explain what you think database usage is?
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by RagnorakMy understanding of database usage is where thousands, or even millions of past games are stored in a device [computer] which can be fairly consulted when a game is over to see if other options had been available and to keep a record. If they are consulted during a game other moves can also be seen which may or may not have been thought of. The "copying" of these moves is what I find pointless.
The question was rhetorical. Then, you called me pathetic, which I don't take too kindly to, especially by somebody who hasn't even got one iota of a clue about something which he apparently feels so strongly about to call thousands of people on the site pathetic.
D
[EDIT] Before I answer your "question", could you please explain what you think database usage is?
And I didn't say any person was pathetic, but copying moves from databases seems pathetic to me.
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveDatabases can be used completely legally during a game.
My understanding of database usage is where thousands, or even millions of past games are stored in a device [computer] which can be fairly consulted when a game is over to see if other options had been available and to keep a record. If they are consulted during a game other moves can also be seen which may or may not have been thought of. The "copyi ...[text shortened]... I didn't say any person was pathetic, but copying moves from databases seems pathetic to me.
In case you didn't know, chess is an absolutely huge game, with an unbelievable number of different possible games. More than every grain of sand on every beach on this planet.
Databases are collections of past games. Normally, you would be able to refer to a database in your active game upto maybe move 10 (that would be pretty much as far as you'd be able to go, although there are a few cases with database use going as far as move 20 maybe, although that's very rare). Mostly, databases would only be used for 5-7 moves, IMO.
Now, its not a case of looking at a database and seeing a move, and then just simply copying that move. What if the player with your colour lost that game? What if his opponent overlooked a weak move? Will you be left in a position that you like after following the database game? Did the players in the database game have a clue what they were doing?
So, good database use is a skill which has to be worked on.
The prime reason I started using dbs in the opening (their only useful time) was because I kept getting blasted out of the water by players over 1500, with my home brew openings. I'm not really a chess book person, so using dbs was my best learning tool for learning different openings as well. I'm now fairly confident playing the Smith Morra, Sicillian as black and Ruy Lopez as white. I think I'll be able to deal with a lot of variations that come my way in those openings (without db usage), purely because of db usage.
BTW: If I said that you posting what you did while being completely ignorant on this subject was pathetic, do you not think it would be fair to say that I said you were pathetic?
D
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveEven opening with 1.h4 is following a database, albeit an unpublished collection of the games of beginners without a competent chess teacher.
What's the point in playing any type of chess if you are copying moves from a database?
Regardless of "rules" that people hide behind to justify it it is pathetic in my opinion.
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by DeepThoughtI follow the rules of correspondence chess and see no reason to make a note of this on my profile page. Doing so seems tantamount to saying I observe the rules regarding castling and en passant.
Take a look at their profile. Some of us state that we use databases/books, and you can always ask.
30 Dec 05
Originally posted by Dr StrangeloveIf the move you find in the database was not among your candidate moves, the chances are good that you'll find yourself in trouble fairly quickly. The sort of database use that you seem to imagine, in other words, confers no advantage to the user.
And I didn't say any person was pathetic, but copying moves from databases seems pathetic to me.