1 edit
Originally posted by Dragon FireThe mods check game opening to see how long the game stays in data and don't even bother running those moves or considering them at all. Games may drop out of data, go back into data, drop out, come back... and that is all ignored. That is pretty much into early or middle 'middle game'.
I can certainly agree that engine matches scored in the middle or end game are (or at least should be) significantly more damning than matches scored whilst in the opening as in the former case there is a good chance those matches were achieved as a result of legitimate past analysis whilst that clearly is not possible in the middle and end game. ...[text shortened]... one can "learn" middle game / end game play from an engine without actually using an engine.
From that point only are the moves analyzed over several games... and more if needed. That is how a case is built. If there is any question or doubts, game mods keep checking.
Game mods don't compare anything going on in the open unless the game doesn't match any established data available to them. Many users have claimed they have a vast database based on moves the leave opening theory, but just how plausible is that? I doubt there are many very strong players that have developed an all encompassing database based on their opponant doing a weak move in the opening.
Again, any user claiming their database was perhaps polluted by an engine are just making excuses for their play. There are far too many lines that can be played to say you have data to answer all bad moves in an open or early middle game.
When the moves match "engine moves" move after move, game after game chances are this person is using an engine. Admins do not remove this user until the evidence is overwhelming, so 'benefit of the doubt' is long out the door by this time considering the amount of time spent on the case and the evidence compiled.
Users are given the benefit of the doubt, that is why more and more games are looked at before anyone is removed from the site.
P-
Originally posted by PhlabibitI think you are saying the same thing as me and confirming that is indeed what the mods do. In which case there can be no question that the recent bannings are fair despite protestations to the contary and support from others who have played then.
The mods check game opening to see how long the game stays in data and don't even bother running those moves or considering them at all. Games may drop out of data, go back into data, drop out, come back... and that is all ignored. That is pretty much into early or middle 'middle game'.
From that point only are the moves analyzed over several games.. ...[text shortened]... is why more and more games are looked at before anyone is removed from the site.
P-
I have found regularly over the years when analysing an adjouned game OTB using Fritz for hours or even days on end that usually 2 or 3 moves after continuing the game we are out of any prepared lines so I agree the best you can hope for in a "personal DB" is 2 or 3 moves in the occasional line and agree that to match move after move game after game is conclusive.
1 edit
Originally posted by ArrakisOriginally posted by Gatecrasher
Wait a minute... earlier you tell us that MANY games are used to determine if a person is cheating. NOW you tell us that ONE MOVE is all it takes! Well pardon me, but I do not accept that even one game is enough to prove a cheater.
I'm really starting to lose faith in your ability guy.
"At least one" could mean any number of moves from one to all.
Is one move all it takes to cheat?
Most certainly, yes.
I took this as a statement that one move could be used to provide that a person was a cheat. Apparently I misinterpretated what Gatecrasher was saying. Someone said that what he was saying was if a person made one move which was computer assisted then that person is a cheat. Please disregard my previous post.
Originally posted by ArrakisIn the letter to blackbuck it says "on at least one occasion assistance from a chess engine has been used". I think someone asked if "all it took was one computer move" or proof of ongoing use..
Message from BlackBuck>
Dear chessfriends Arrakis, Eric Crook, cludi, Korch, Northern Lad and franz007at.
On May 31, I received a short email:
BlackBuck
The RedHotPawn.com game moderation team have reviewed your games and concluded that on at least one occasion assistance from a chess engine has been used to suggest moves.
This is a breach of t ...[text shortened]... and your account has been terminated accordingly.
Regards,
RedHotPawn.com Admin.
1 edit
Originally posted by R3V3NG3How could they stop them. Who would want to anyway.
can a banned player actually come back to the site? I mean, try to support his innocence or something ?like Blackbuck with that letter for example, is it taken into consideration?
*edit*
I meant to say for free members. For paid I guess they could not accept payment from the same person again. Not likely.
This place is turning into a disaster anyway. I keep thinking the "Only Chess" forum might have some chess discussion. Instead it's a bunch of adult children seeing who can be king of the dung heap.