Only Chess
16 Apr 04
16 Apr 04
2 edits
This thread also has some thoughts on this:If you're opponent announces mate in eight...you just might be playing a computer.
http://www.redhotchess.com/board/showthread.php?id=10018
If your opponent has never in his entire career dropped a piece...you just might be playing a computer.
If your opponent's opening repertoire is "all book"...you just might be playing a computer.
If your opponent has never in his entire career attempted a positional sacrifice...you just might be playing a computer.
If you regularly get into the middle-game even against strong competition, but find yourself losing material in complex combinations at move 9...you just might be playing computer.
If you just lost a really complicated game, and subsequent analysis using Fritz shows that your opponent played exactly the best move every time...you just might be playing a computer.
If your record improves when you switch to "anti-computer" tactics (bizarre openings, keeping the game closed, etc.)...you just might be playing a computer.
Or, maybe the other player's just really really good!
😉
16 Apr 04
Originally posted by slimjimBy looking at the moves, it is very difficult to say that a person is using a chess engine to help make a move.
Can someone give some pointers on how I can tell if someone is using software when I am playing them. I don't mind getting beat fair and square but, I don't want to play a computer telling the person how to move.
Almost all engines can find a mate in 4 and give you the correct move order, but for a non forcing position different engines will suggest different moves, infact same engine may suggest different moves at different time controls and hardware resources. The use os tablebases will also affect the choice of moves an engine makes. Considering the wide optins available, it is quite possible that a player would have "thought" the move.
One need not worry about use of a computer by the opponent, He/she is cheating himself/herself not you.
16 Apr 04
Originally posted by lloydkIts not sour grapes and from some of the clues you have given me has helped. You have just reinforced my suspicions.🙂
If you're opponent announces mate in eight...you just might be playing a computer.
If your opponent has never in his entire career dropped a piece...you just might be playing a computer.
If your opponent's opening repertoire is "all book"...you just might be playing a computer.
If your opponent has never in his entire career attempted a positiona ...[text shortened]... ust might be playing a computer.
Or, maybe the other player's just really really good!
😉
16 Apr 04
Originally posted by PrashantWell if the person thought the move thats fine but, I've played some players and while I'm not the greatest player in the world i can tell when something is fishy. thats why i joined this site to play real players. if i want to play the computer then I'll go buy Chess Master or something else.😀
By looking at the moves, it is very difficult to say that a person is using a chess engine to help make a move.
Almost all engines can find a mate in 4 and give you the correct move order, but for a non forcing position different engines will suggest different moves, infact same engine may suggest different moves at different time controls and hardware res ...[text shortened]... not worry about use of a computer by the opponent, He/she is cheating himself/herself not you.
16 Apr 04
Originally posted by slimjimI hope i am not on your list of 'fishy' players.
Well if the person thought the move thats fine but, I've played some players and while I'm not the greatest player in the world i can tell when something is fishy. thats why i joined this site to play real players. if i want to play the computer then I'll go buy Chess Master or something else.😀
-trekkie
16 Apr 04
Originally posted by lloydki make many deletions to lloyd's list and change just a couple of things and have the list i like ......
If you're opponent announces mate in eight...you just might be playing a computer.
If your record improves when you switch to "anti-computer" tactics (bizarre openings, keeping the game closed, etc.)...you just might be playing a computer.
Or, maybe the other player's just really really good!
😉
If you're opponent announces mate in eighteen ... you just might be playing a computer.
If your record improves when you switch to "anti-computer" tactics (bizarre openings, keeping the game closed, etc.)...you just might be playing a computer..
🙂
17 Apr 04
Originally posted by flexmoreFlexmore, Mate in 18 is like playing Deep Blue.
i make many deletions to lloyd's list and change just a couple of things and have the list i like ......
If you're opponent announces mate in eighteen ... you just might be playing a computer.
If your record improves when you switch to "anti-computer" tactics (bizarre openings, keeping the game closed, etc.)...you just might be playing a computer..
🙂
I know of a game Alekhine announced mate in 10. The first move of the combination was a queen sac.
Is anyone aware of player (human) announcing mate above 12 moves.
17 Apr 04
Originally posted by Prashanti just asked this question in another forum :
Flexmore, Mate in 18 is like playing Deep Blue.
I know of a game Alekhine announced mate in 10. The first move of the combination was a queen sac.
Is anyone aware of player (human) announcing mate above 12 moves.
">if a program plays against a human, what sort of mate announcements might we
>expect?
>
>obviously in a middle game it might be less - how many?
>
>and in an endgame it might be more moves - again how many?"
and recieved this answer:
"tournamend time controls: 7-9 in middlegame
12-250 in endgame (if TBs are involved)
regards Joachim"
17 Apr 04
2 edits
A long time ago I saw a piece about a cheater who was busted after announcing mate in eight vs. a grandmaster in tournament play. I'm not sure if the following is accurate in the details, but I have read the gist of it elsewhere:
"A club player who was a very average player and had never had a good result in his life suddenly won a strong open tournament ahead of several Grandmasters. In the last round, he was playing a very strong Grandmaster and smashed him off the board. When the Grandmaster resigned, the club player told him that it was checkmate eight moves later. The Grandmaster said "How do you know?" and the club player replied "Just analyse the position and you'll see it's mate in eight."
"Of course, it was soon discovered that he had been cheating. He had long hair which concealed an earphone in his ear and on his lap he had held a small keyboard. He had a friend in a hotel room nearby and his friend had Fritz running on a PC. It was Fritz, and not the club player, who was responsible for all the moves and it was Fritz who announced mate in eight."
( http://www.msoworld.com/chat/levypost.html )
This is also an interesting article on the topic:
http://www.insight.demon.co.uk/NatalieR/natalier_case.htm#Evintro
23 Apr 04
Originally posted by PrashantI think that is unfair.
Flexmore, Mate in 18 is like playing Deep Blue.
I know of a game Alekhine announced mate in 10. The first move of the combination was a queen sac.
Is anyone aware of player (human) announcing mate above 12 moves.
I can play very unusual games when I get inspired, I have mated people in 7 and 8 moves with a queen sacrifice when they take the bait. I have won numerous games in under 20 moves, mormally when my opponent makes a mistake, here's a game I won in 17 moves Game 426348.
This game in 15 because my opponent had a fear of loosing his queen Game 428006
And mate in 10 moves Game 409923
And I don't use a computer.
23 Apr 04
Originally posted by SimbadIt is not that he/she says that if you mate in 10 that then you are using a computer. He/she says that if you announce a mate in 10, so that you think 10 moves forward that then it is suspicious, but I agree that you can announce a mate in more than 10 moves when every move is a forcing move, but when the moves are not forced, I think announcing mate in 10 is pretty suspicious.
I think that is unfair.
I can play very unusual games when I get inspired, I have mated people in 7 and 8 moves with a queen sacrifice when they take the bait. I have won numerous games in under 20 moves, mormally when my opponent makes a mistake, here's a game I won in 17 moves Game 426348.
This game in 15 because my opponent had a fear of loosi ...[text shortened]... queen Game 428006
And mate in 10 moves Game 409923
And I don't use a computer.
23 Apr 04
Originally posted by tejoSorry, my mistake, I can't read properly 🙂
It is not that he/she says that if you mate in 10 that then you are using a computer. He/she says that if you [b]announce a mate in 10, so that you think 10 moves forward that then it is suspicious, but I agree that you can announce a mate in more than 10 moves when every move is a forcing move, but when the moves are not forced, I think announcing mate in 10 is pretty suspicious.[/b]
What if you adhere to the rules a computer uses?
I sometimes start a game with set moves and countermoves, I also like the gambit or sacrifice, are computers able to make such "human" responses like gambits?
23 Apr 04
Originally posted by SimbadOnly if the lines for the gambit are in the computers book of moves.
Sorry, my mistake, I can't read properly 🙂
What if you adhere to the rules a computer uses?
I sometimes start a game with set moves and countermoves, I also like the gambit or sacrifice, are computers able to make such "human" responses like gambits?
If a computer offers a pawn for free, it is not a free pawn at all... the computer knows how to get it back with extra or wouldn't do it.
P-