13 Jun 08
Originally posted by smrex13"Good practical chances" doesn't necessarily mean that you have to win by a quick knockout. In the Smith-Morra, the pressure against the Black position can last for 35 moves and Black may have to not only give up his extra pawn, but even drift into a worse endgame.
I'm of the opinion that "practical chances" means "you can win quickly if your opponent doesn't know the line."
Scott
IM Alex Lendermann has defeated players much stronger than himself (including GM's) with the Smith-Morra Gambit.
13 Jun 08
Originally posted by SquelchbelchMy point wasn't that you can't win with the Morra gambit (Karpov lost to 1...a6, so that must be the best opening move, right?), but rather that you are counting on your opponent not being up on the theory to get those wins, i.e 'practical chances.'. I just think that when you look at an opening, you should assume best play by your opponent to determine whether the opening is worth playing.
I've beaten a lot better players than you with this "dubious" gambit.
On this site I'm currently
P=44
W=31
D=5
L=8
or +70.5 which compares to +60 for my games over all.
Thankyou for your advice, but I shall continue to play (and win) with the Morra gambit.
Also, to assume that a Sicilian player will have "equal theoretical knowledge" of the ga ...[text shortened]... ous & White gets a lot of play for a pawn & generally has all the attacking chances.
Nevertheless, you said you have fun playing the Morra, and that's what chess is all about anyway.
Scott
14 Jun 08
Originally posted by lumaxHalf danish was invented by squelchbelch i think but it describes well enough the danish where white doesn't give the second pawn but plays 4.Nxc3.
is there a half danish gambit? just wondering by the way I AM using chess books on oppeings to beat people on this site....is that breaking the rules???
It's usually considered to lead to the goring gambit by transposition (e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 d4 ed c3) but in fact as Nigel Davies pointed out in his boook "gambiteer", it can have an independent course (white can avoid playing Nf3, playing Nge2 instead)
14 Jun 08
2 edits
Originally posted by smrex13So If I play 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 or 1.e4 c5 2.d4 as White, which line is an intermediate (roughly 1500-1800) player most likley to be familiar with as Black?
...but rather that you are counting on your opponent not being up on the theory to get those wins, i.e 'practical chances.'. I just think that when you look at an opening, you should assume best play by your opponent to determine whether the opening is worth playing.
Nevertheless, you said you have fun playing the Morra, and that's what chess is all about anyway.
Scott
"Practical chances" to me means taking someone out of repertoire & into your own theoretical backyard, also the multiple tactical motifs & sharpness of the openings I play only enhance these chances.
I understand that this is more relevant to OTB than here where someone can reasonably easily knock out a half-decent defence to anything with databases & books, but playing the most testing lines against, say the Morra here will only help my OTB prep.
By the way I always look for opponents' best play after each of my moves. To not do so makes for a very poor game.
As Korch said, many of the tactical themes that readily occur in the Morra also apply to plenty of other situations; just off the top of my head
The trapped Piece (usually the queen)
The pinned piece or pawn (on the d-file mostly)
The piece sac on b5 or sometimes d5
The e4/e5 pawn thrust
The sac on f7
The deflection check also on f7
As well as all the usual pins, forks skewers etc that happen frequently because of all the open lines of attack & ease of piece development & attacking/cramping nature of the Morra gambit.
It really is worth a look Scott, trust me 🙂
15 Jun 08
Originally posted by shorbockAs I wrote in a previous thread on the Morra Gambit, I think it is theoretically somewhat dubious, black's best line probably being 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.0-0 Nge7. Of course, at lower levels it is quite playable and indeed can be a lot of fun.
Exactly, i've noted that many average players accept the gambit but that most strong players (2250+) i met OTB found it simpler to refuse it... i recall one who tried a "refutation"(not the best) but who got mixed up and i won a nice game (though i was outrated 150 points), and 2 years later when we met again he played 3...d3, and outplayed me strategically ...[text shortened]... s a different story (though i don't think any line can give black a forced clear advantage)
I think the reason why a lot of players decline the Morra (usually with 3...Nf6) is that they can force a transposition into a line of the c3 Sicilian that they have to know anyway. They couldn't be bothered learning the theory of the Morra in view of its relative rarity.
18 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Northern LadWell i think up to master level it's dangerous, squelchbelch's example is very nice, in what you quote as the best defence.
As I wrote in a previous thread on the Morra Gambit, I think it is theoretically somewhat dubious, black's best line probably being 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 a6 7.0-0 Nge7. Of course, at lower levels it is quite playable and indeed can be a lot of fun.
I think the reason why a lot of players decline the Morra (usually with ...[text shortened]... ay. They couldn't be bothered learning the theory of the Morra in view of its relative rarity.
Typical : black has learnt a classical and respected way of busting the gambit, but white comes with this stunning novelty Nd5! and wins beautifully.
Here's what langrock says about your line (after 2 more moves : 8.Bg5 f6 Be3) :
"Here black has scored an impressive 60%! The reason for white's poor score in this line is misinterpretation of the ensuing play"
So yes, many people think this gambit is inferior but just don't bother working on it, having this simple transposition (though only in the Nf6 version of the alapin, because people who play 2...d5 usually don't take on d4 in the alapin).
But i think it's not only that. There are also many players who try to refute the gambit, and then seeing it's not that easy, switch to the alapin.
As an example : when i recently asked a french GM (E.Bricard) what he thought of the morra, he didn't have that disdainful look i usually get from players way under his level, but admitted it was risky to accept it : he told me he stopped accepting the gambit after playing a "refutation" (as good as yours i think : Nc6/a6/Nf6/Bg4) against a 2200 player, getting a somewhat better position, but then losing in 30 moves in the tactical complications.
He told me he was more confident of outplaying a lower rated player strategically (his positionnal understangding is amazing!)
18 Jun 08
Bricard's game is not on chessgame.com but can be found on chesslive.de
So my morra is well worth your king's gambit ! 😉 (at least the Nf3 version...Bc4 might be sounder)
In my opinion, both are interesting gambits where black might be able to force equality or even an advantage with very precise play, but not a very safe advantage !
18 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by SquelchbelchAgain I refer to a previous thread on the Morra Gambit (http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=81704&page=1) in which I stated my preference for 8...h6 whilst accepting that 8...f6 is probably also good for black as long as he follows the right plan, namely not 10...Ng6?! as in the above game but 10...Bb7! with Na5 and Nec6 (or maybe even b4) to follow.
Check this out (especially the incredible 11.Nd5! idea)
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1235904
18 Jun 08
Originally posted by Northern LadOh i didn't see this thread, thanks it's quite interesting! i'll have a closer look when i'm back from holidays.
Again I refer to a previous thread on the Morra Gambit (http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=81704&page=1) in which I stated my preference for 8...h6 whilst accepting that 8...f6 is probably also good for black as long as he follows the right plan, namely not 10...Ng6?! as in the above game but 10...Bb7! with Na5 and Nec6 (or maybe even b4) to follow.
Funny how i quoted the same phrase from Langrock as dragonfire 🙂
This is definitely a very complex variation were move orders can be tricky...
I have to admit i wouldn't feel confident playing it OTB, but i would gladly try it (with white of course) on redhotpawn, in order to understand it better...
I faced it once in OTB competition only, and lost to a lower rated opponent, so i guess i need to work on it !
19 Jun 08
Originally posted by Northern LadI'll have two future Morra games so I'll take your advice and try to do some analysis of my own.
I stated my preference for 8...h6 whilst accepting that 8...f6 is probably also good for black as long as he follows the right plan, namely not 10...Ng6?! as in the above game but 10...Bb7! with Na5 and Nec6 (or maybe even b4) to follow.
To shorbock: Just wait a little bit more and we can get it on. I'm still indecise between the chicago or an improved set up (sugestted by NorthernLad and Yuga) of my game against Squelch...