Originally posted by dottewellUsing a database successfully is a skill that takes time to learn. If you just blindly follow a bunch of GM games then anyone who actually knows how to use a database and/or is a good player will crush you. No matter how much you prune and perfect your database it will always contain refuted moves and blunders. It's no good following a GM game which black won for 20 moves if black won because white blundered away an advantage on move 22.
A database can help a random patzer play at master strength for the first 5, 10, 15 or even 20 moves of a game. All that is required is a modicum of computer skill and a large enough database.
Originally posted by XanthosNZI agree. I'm not saying they should be banned or that they provide a decisive advantage. But it is simply wrong to suggest they can't help a bad player gain an artificially strong position with little or no thought.
Using a database successfully is a skill that takes time to learn. If you just blindly follow a bunch of GM games then anyone who actually knows how to use a database and/or is a good player will crush you. No matter how much you prune and perfect your database it will always contain refuted moves and blunders. It's no good following a GM game which black won for 20 moves if black won because white blundered away an advantage on move 22.
Originally posted by dottewellThe position must be played at the end of the book sequence.
I agree. I'm not saying they should be banned or that they provide a decisive advantage. But it is simply wrong to suggest they can't help a bad player gain an artificially strong position with little or no thought.
For example, my latest completed game here at RHP reached the following position after my move 15.
I was using a database, and I expect that my opponent did as well. Rizzers played a novelty here: 15...Bd7 (15...Rb8 had been played before). If either of us had been following a database blindly up to this point, we now would be in trouble, as our position had become complex.
Furthermore, we may have come this far with databases, but all moves so far have been among the two or three most obvious candidate moves. I easily could have reached this position OTB, and I suspect that is true for my opponent as well.
Originally posted by XanthosNZI'm not whining. I'm just saying I'm carrying a 1510 rating today without using any sources or databases. I didn't say another person can't use one in correspondence chess. I just think that if they do use database, I don't suggest them taking their rating serious. It's not their true strength. That's what I'm driving at, Xanthos!
This site is for correspondance chess which allows the use of databases and books during games. You may as well ask 'who is the highest rated player who doesn't use en passant?', it's part of correspondance chess.
Quit whining or go play rapid chess loser.
Originally posted by XanthosNZWell, I do have to say I agree with Xanthos on what he says here. That is true. Every chess game also has a different life of its own. Very rarely do you ever find two games alike. It does happen though.
Using a database successfully is a skill that takes time to learn. If you just blindly follow a bunch of GM games then anyone who actually knows how to use a database and/or is a good player will crush you. No matter how much you prune and perfect your database it will always contain refuted moves and blunders. It's no good following a GM game which black won for 20 moves if black won because white blundered away an advantage on move 22.
I've messaged 1900 players who don't use databases, or at least say they do not. One 1900+ player I know doesn't use databases because I found a well-known game that followed ours almost to the end. It was a Kasparov game, as I remember. Despite this, I think you'll find the higher in ratings you go, the more likely your opponent is using a database or a big, thick book on the opening. I've often wondered, if given the choice, would I pick a database or a book. On occasions, I've consulted both. But if I'm not feeling ambitious, i just make a move. And sometimes regret it.
Originally posted by powershakerI use a database so you are saying I shouldn't take my rating seriously? Even though most of my games are against other players using databases?
I'm not whining. I'm just saying I'm carrying a 1510 rating today without using any sources or databases. I didn't say another person can't use one in correspondence chess. I just think that if they do use database, I don't suggest them taking their rating serious. It's not their true strength. That's what I'm driving at, Xanthos!
Geez. From time to time I can play through as many as a half dozen classic master games entirely from memory. I imagine that stronger players can play through more, often many more.
In certain opening lines, I've played out beyond move ten hundreds of times in online games--many at 3-minute time control. To move five, the numbers are in the thousands.
I don't need databases to play "book" openings; however, I do use them to learn new variations while testing them in practical play. I doubt that I've won any games here that I would have lost without databases. But if I have, I've lost at least as many because of opening experiments that went awry.