Davids vs. Goliaths: Wins against 2000+ players

Not one of mine, but here is the current #2 on this site (will probably be #1 before too long) losing to unspectacular but solid play by someone rated around 1800: Game 4143531.

Incidentally, this is the position after White's 45th move:


This is a very simple draw, any OTB player rated over 2000 could draw this for Black without any effort at all. I'm astonished that Altern8 doesn't know his basic rook and pawn endings.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
Not one of mine, but here is the current #2 on this site (will probably be #1 before too long) losing to unspectacular but solid play by someone rated around 1800: Game 4143531.

Incidentally, this is the position after White's 45th move:
[fen]4k3/8/7r/3KP3/R7/8/8/8 b - - 0 54[/fen]

This is a very simple draw, any OTB player rated over 2000 coul ...[text shortened]... any effort at all. I'm astonished that Altern8 doesn't know his basic rook and pawn endings.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
Not one of mine, but here is the current #2 on this site (will probably be #1 before too long) losing to unspectacular but solid play by someone rated around 1800: Game 4143531.

Incidentally, this is the position after White's 45th move:
[fen]4k3/8/7r/3KP3/R7/8/8/8 b - - 0 54[/fen]

This is a very simple draw, any OTB player rated over 2000 coul ...[text shortened]... any effort at all. I'm astonished that Altern8 doesn't know his basic rook and pawn endings.

Yes, surely he can. A normal Philidor is about the defending rook getting to the 6th in this position, preventing whites King stepping forward. Advancing the pawn is fruitless because black plays Rh1, with a view to drawing by a barrage of checks which white cannot avoid.

But in the given position, white can block that barrage with Rd4. Where does black go from there? He cannot exchange rooks, as does this not lead to a simple K+P vs K endgame? If he doesn't exchange rooks whites king steps forward does it not?

I must be talking rubbish or the Phildor wouldn't be a draw, as white could just engineer this position with the rook on the 4th, but I can't work it out and it is maddening me!

Help.... 🙂

Ahh - is it because after the exchange of rooks, white actually can't get his King infront of his pawn, so black draws the resulting K+P vs K?

Originally posted by Policestate
Ahh - is it because after the exchange of rooks, white actually can't get his King infront of his pawn, so black draws the resulting K+P vs K?

Originally posted by Policestate
Ahh - is it because after the exchange of rooks, white actually can't get his King infront of his pawn, so black draws the resulting K+P vs K?

Originally posted by orion25
black only plays his rook to the cheking rank after white advances his pawn, if he doesnt do so he will just keep it on the 3rd (6th in this case) rank. After white moves the pawn up his king can't hide from the checks behind the pawn and is so defenceless. If he interposes with his rook black just swaps them of and moves his king to the field in front of th ...[text shortened]... in a straight line when black looses the oposition and it will be impossible for white to queen

Originally posted by orion25
black only plays his rook to the cheking rank after white advances his pawn, if he doesnt do so he will just keep it on the 3rd (6th in this case) rank. After white moves the pawn up his king can't hide from the checks behind the pawn and is so defenceless. If he interposes with his rook black just swaps them of and moves his king to the field in front of th ...[text shortened]... in a straight line when black looses the oposition and it will be impossible for white to queen

Originally posted by heinzkat
More or less as in my Game 5886873

I agree with the different skill sets idea. I have a friend in Florida (US) who is an 1800 player +/- (150 or so ECF, I think), but he is something like 2300+ in international correspondence chess, even playing on the US team. In OTB chess he just blunders occasionally, whereas in CC he is much more careful, and he definitely does not cheat.
Sometimes I think we can get too caught up in the ratings, especially when a person hasn't played that many games. They are certainly an accurate indicator of playing strength under set parameters, but they only partially indicate chess knowledge.

In one of Karpov's biographies, he talks about his trainer, GM Semyon Furman. Furman used to be able to predict Karpov's moves with something like 99% accuracy. One time in the press room, the other GMS were mystified, and Korchnoi asked him "If you can predict Karpov's moves so accurately, while don't you play these moves in your own games?" Furman's only answer was something like a shrug and "that's not how I play".

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Leggett
I agree with the different skill sets idea. I have a friend in Florida (US) who is an 1800 player +/- (150 or so ECF, I think), but he is something like 2300+ in international correspondence chess, even playing on the US team. In OTB chess he just blunders occasionally, whereas in CC he is much more careful, and he definitely does not cheat.
Sometime ...[text shortened]... Furman's only answer was something like a shrug and "that's not how I play".

Paul

Originally posted by tomtom232
Screw that. 😠 Probably exaggerated. If I could predict his moves like that I would have been world champ!

Apparently it was the other GMs who noticed. They kept wagering back and forth about what Karpov and Kasparov would each play next, and Furman always guessed Karpov's moves. There's also something to be said when it's not your clock that's running!