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Decide if these 3 positions are drawn.

Decide if these 3 positions are drawn.

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Originally posted by Fat Lady
Could you be more specific about what you think White's drawing technique is? Black's winning technique is to keep his rook on the c-file and wobble his king and pawn up the board.

[pgn]
[FEN "8/7R/k7/1p6/2r5/4K3/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
1. Rh1 b4 2. Ra1+ Kb5 3. Rb1 Ka4 4. Kd3 Rc7
5. Ra1+ Kb3 6. Rb1+ Ka3 7. Ra1+ Kb2 8. Rh1
[/pgn]

(edit: not 6. ... Ka2? as I originally posted!)
Hm,the technique.Remember this is not part of my chess knowledge,my technique would be to lose such a position LOL
But I'll try show by example.

1.Rh1,b4 2.Kd3,Rc3+ (anywhere else and Rh5 cuts off your king) 3.Kd2,Kb5(or Ka5,to prevent getting your king cut off) 4.Rc1,Rg3 (if rook stays on c-file it gets traded) 5.Kc2,b3+ (seems an obvious draw,right?Just two more moves to show a neat trick that might come up) 6.Kb2,Kb4 7.Rg1! neat 🙂

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OK, seems I was wrong. I found an online endgame database (*) which shows how White can draw this:



The point is that White can drive away Black's rook from the c-file, after which he can blockade the pawn with his king and draw ala Philidor.

(*) http://www.lokasoft.nl/uk/tbweb.htm

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The problem is of course managing to draw that position as white in an OTB game without any resources. I would have been impressed if he managed how to do that.

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Originally posted by Ramned
The problem is of course managing to draw that position as white in an OTB game without any resources. I would have been impressed if he managed how to do that.
Yeah,I know I would've lost it.I would've tried with sidechecks which isn't the way to go.

1 edit
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I would have tried ot pass in front of the black rook or to remove it from the from the c-file, I want my king on the b-file, then giving plenty of checks.

But I did not see how.

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Originally posted by Ramned
The problem is of course managing to draw that position as white in an OTB game without any resources. I would have been impressed if he managed how to do that.
Indeed, although attacking the pawn from in front of it is a well known drawing technique, the backward rook move still seems difficult to find.
Even the great Tal once failed to do so in a similar position:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1139866
(See the comment from 'acirce' there.)

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Originally posted by Uries
In the second position doesn't black just play Rh8+ swap rooks and then march the pawn and win based on the strength of white's king being cut off?
that should do it but Rh8+, Rh3, Rhg8 looks to be even better in m mind. The third is a great lucena/philidor study and I admit I did not find the drawing resource. Very nice Romanticus. First also looks to be a clear win for black.

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Quick look

1. No - black should be able to force a swap of rook
2. Never - Again black forces rook swap and should be left with rook and pawn v bishop
3. No - White surely cannot swap rook for rook considering black king is in front of his pawn

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Originally posted by zebano
Very nice Romanticus.
Thanks,but I do not deserve the credit.
I didn't find it either.My idea was to draw with sidechecks which didn't work.Then I looked it up and posted the correct way.

You could of course say it was nice detective work 😀

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