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Dortmund 2008

Dortmund 2008

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Originally posted by Korch
Why do you think its so unKramnik-like?
Because it was short and to the point (weak g7). Usually he has to grind out his matches for 50 moves to realize a full point. Of course it occurs to me that might just be due to poor play by Van Wely.

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Originally posted by zebano
Because it was short and to the point (weak g7). Usually he has to grind out his matches for 50 moves to realize a full point. Of course it occurs to me that might just be due to poor play by Van Wely.
I subscribe...

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Originally posted by zebano
Because it was short and to the point (weak g7). Usually he has to grind out his matches for 50 moves to realize a full point. Of course it occurs to me that might just be due to poor play by Van Wely.
1) Strong players with strong positional play tend to overplay weaker opponents easily. With no disrespect to Van Wely - he is obviously weaker than Kramnik.

2) Have you forgotten about Kramnik-Morozevich game in FIDE World Championship Tournament?

[Event "FIDE World Championship Tournament"]
[Site "0:15:33-0:00:33"]
[Date "2007.09.14"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Vladimir Kramnik"]
[Black "Alexander Morozevich"]
[ECO "E04"]
[WhiteElo "2811"]
[BlackElo "2758"]
[PlyCount "53"]

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 d5 4.d4 dxc4 5.Bg2 a6 6.Ne5 Bb4+ 7.Nc3
Nd5 8.O-O O-O 9.Qc2 b5 10.Nxd5 exd5 11.b3 c6 12.e4 f6 13.exd5
fxe5 14.bxc4 exd4 15.dxc6 Be6 16.cxb5 d3 17.c7 Qd4 18.Qa4 Nd7
19.Be3 Qd6 20.Bxa8 Rxa8 21.Bf4 Qf8 22.b6 Ne5 23.Bxe5 Qf3
24.Qd1 Qe4 25.b7 Rf8 26.c8=Q Bd5 27.f3 1-0

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I don't believe it ... Arkadij Naiditsch beats Wladimir Kramnik in the third round .... 😲

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Could some post a pgn of Kramniks loss?

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Originally posted by stockton1984
Could some post a pgn of Kramniks loss?

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Originally posted by stockton1984
Could some post a pgn of Kramniks loss?
From chessbase.com:

(1) Naiditsch,Arkadij (2665) - Kramnik,Vladimir (2788) [C42]
Sparkassen Dortmund GER (3), 01.07.2008

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5 6.Bd3 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7 8.Re1 Bg4 9.c4 Nf6 10.Nc3 Bxf3 11.Qxf3 Nxd4 12.Qd1 Ne6 13.cxd5 Nxd5 14.Bb5+ c6 15.Nxd5 cxb5 16.Bf4 [16.a4 b4 17.Bf4 analysed by GK 1999] 16...Nxf4 17.Rxe7+ Kf8 18.Re5 Qd6 19.Qd2 Ng6?! Kramnik played this move after 45 minutes of thought. He realised that he was in trouble. [The critical move is of course 19...Qxe5 20.Qb4+ Ke8 (20...Kg8 21.Ne7+ Kf8 22.Nc6+ Kg8 23.Nxe5+- ) 21.Re1 (21.Qxb5+ Kd8 22.Rd1 Ne2+ 23.Kh1 Nd4 24.Qxb7 Rc8 and White remains a rook down, but the position is unclear - but not worse for him.) 21...Ne2+ 22.Kf1 Rc8! (22...Qxd5? 23.Rxe2+ Kd7 24.Rd2 (24.Qe7+? Kc6 25.Rc2+ Kb6 26.Qe3+ Ka5 27.Qa3+ Kb6 is a draw.) ) 23.f4 Qxd5 24.Rxe2+ Kd7 25.Rd2 Rc5 26.Rxd5+ Rxd5 and the position is most likely a draw.] 20.Ree1 Now White is clearly better. 20...f6 21.Rad1 Kf7 22.Qe3 Rhe8 23.Ne7 Qxe7 24.Qb3+ Kf8 25.Rxe7 Rxe7 26.Qxb5 Rae8 27.g3 Ne5 28.Kg2 Nc6 29.b4 a6 30.Qb6 h6 31.a4 Ne5 32.Qc5 Kg8 33.b5 axb5 34.axb5 Nf7 35.h4 Kh8 36.Rd2 Kg8 37.Kh3 Kh8 38.f4 Kg8 39.h5 Kh8 40.Qf5 Nd8 41.Rd7 Ne6 42.Qd5 1-0

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WOW....

So where does this rank on the all time list of chess upsets?

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Originally posted by stockton1984
WOW....

So where does this rank on the all time list of chess upsets?
Uh, there's only a rating difference of 123 points. Upsets like that happen fairly often.

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Leave it to Mad Rook to expose my ignorance 😛

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the second to last game posted from the visual board...I dont get why black was content with a draw? why didnt he or she just take the knight with the pawn? He was up in material by alot.

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another sample of a boring tournament...
If they do not have Sofia rule,
or Topalov/Morozevich/maybe Shirov-Kamsky-Short-Radjabov-Aronian/now Carlsen also!!!!
or if they have Kramnik/Svidler(in his good days)
these "high level" tournaments are pretty boring

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Originally posted by robydela
...why didnt he or she just take the knight with the pawn? ...
double check.

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yeah , but if he moved his king all the way in the corner...then he would of been ok.

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Originally posted by robydela
yeah , but if he moved his king all the way in the corner...then he would of been ok.
black is left a pawn (passed one) down in material though, not up.

and I don't know much anything about rook endings, but aren't these kind of endings drawn anyway? and maybe it's a draw, but it certainly isn't better for black than the dead draw with Kf8 instead of Kh8.

anyway, 24.Ne7+ Kh8 25.Qxc7 Rxc7 26.Rxf1 Rxe7 (here fritz wants to take 26...Rxc3 first as the knight is trapped, but all that changes is white gets a passer on d-file instead of c-file, only 2 moves more advanced. which can't be better for black? if you're gonna defend against a passer, the less advanced the better, right?)


(it's continuation to the mamedjarov - leko drawn game in case someone is wondering what game we're talking about)

I mean, everything else is pretty symmetrical, and whatever white puts behind the pawn black can match. how is it going to get past that, against leko the draw master?

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