Originally posted by kenanI think white did choose wrong plan - better was 7.0-0 (instead of 7.Qe2) with Be3, Qe2 and Rad1 to follow.
Game 3912500
Originally posted by FabianFnasIn MM openings like the Smith-Morra, White gives something up (a pawn) and gets something in return (a two move lead in development). A player good at using the initiative has a good chance to win with the White pieces. A good defender with Black can often ward off any attack that White can muster, a will usually win the endgame with his extra pawn. It's not a matter of "right" or "wrong", its basically a question of what kind of position do you like to play?
If a Mickey Mouse opening is used and won... Is it because the opening is sound or because the opponent didn't play faulty moves?
One winning game is not a proof that the MM opening is valid.
Originally posted by gaychessplayerIt's not a matter of "right" or "wrong", its basically a question of what kind of position do you like to play? - Exactly
In MM openings like the Smith-Morra, White gives something up (a pawn) and gets something in return (a two move lead in development). A player good at using the initiative has a good chance to win with the White pieces. A good defender with Black can often ward off any attack that White can muster, a will usually win the endgame with his extra pawn. ...[text shortened]... "right" or "wrong", its basically a question of what kind of position do you like to play?
Originally posted by Northern LadJust out of interest I give you H. Langrock's assessment of the N(g)e7 system.
Yes. Nc6, e6, a6, Nge7
1.e4...c5
2.d4...cxd4
3.c3...dxc3
4.Nxc3...Nc6
5.Nf3...e6
6.Bc4...a6
7.0-0...N(g)e7
Langrock states that with usual Morra development 8.Qe2, 9.Rd1 white can't even hope for equality if black knows what he is doing.
The critical move here is
8.Bg5
He goes on to analyse the critical lines (including reasons why the routine Qe2 & Rd1 are out of place) for 48 pages.
Here's his conclusion:
"The N(g)e7 system is currently the most popular way to meet the Morra gambit; some believe it's even the refutation. But black's remarkable scoring percentage is a result of white's incorrect interpretation of the opening.
If white is aware of the system's nuances, he will certainly get promising compensation for the pawn. White must remain flexible depending on how black plays.
There is plenty of room for improvement in the critical lines, as there are only a few games that feature white's best continuations 11.Nd4!?...Nxd4, 12.Qxd4! (Zelic-Bertok) and 11.Nd5!? (Zakharov-Gusev)."
*********************
[Event "Cro Ch T"]
[Site "Rabac"]
[Date "2003.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "10"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Mladen Zelic"]
[Black "Mario Bertok"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "101"]
1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 e6
7. O-O Nge7 8. Bg5 f6 9.Be3 b5 10.Bb3 Ng6 11.Nd4 Nxd4 12.Qxd4
Bb7 13.f4 Rc8 14.Qa7 Qc7 15.R(a)c1 Bc5 16.Nxb5 Bxa7 17.Nxc7
Rxc7 18.Bxa7 Rxc1 19.Rxc1 Bxe4 20.Rc7 0-0 21.Bc5 Ra8 22.Bd6
Nf8 23.Bxf8 Kxf8 24.Rxd7 Bf5 25.Bc4 a5 26.Kf2 Rc8 27.b3 a4
28.Ke3 axb3 29.axb3 30.Kd2 h4 31.Kc3 Be4 32.Kd4 Bxg2 33.Bxe6
Rc2 34.Rf7+ Ke8 35.Rxg7 h3 36.Rh7 Rf2 37.Bxh3 Rxf4+ 38.Kc5
Be4 39.Rh8+ Ke7 40.Bc8 Rf2 41.Kd4 Bh1 42.Ba6 Kd6 43.Bc4 Rf4+
44.Ke3 Rf3+ 45.Ke2 Rf4 46.h4 Rf5 47.Bd3 Re5+ 48.Kf2 Bd5 49.h5
Bxb3 50.h6 Rh5 51.h7
1-0
[Event "Tula It-2"]
[Site "Tula"]
[Date "2001.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "10"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Vladimir Zakharov"]
[Black "Aleksey Gusev"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "87"]
1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 e6
7. O-O Nge7 8. Bg5 f6 9. Be3 b5 10. Bb3 Ng6 11. Nd5 exd5
12. exd5 Nce5 13. d6 Bb7 14. Nxe5 fxe5 15. f4 exf4 16. Re1
fxe3 17. Rxe3+ Be7 18. Qd4 Qb8 19. dxe7 Qa7 20. Bf7+ Kxf7
21. e8=Q+ Rhxe8 22. Rf1+ Kg8 23. Qxa7 Rxe3 24. Qxe3 Bd5
25. Rd1 Be6 26. b3 Ne7 27. Rd6 h6 28. Qb6 Kf7 29. Qb7 Rc8
30. Qxa6 Rc1+ 31. Kf2 Rc2+ 32. Kf3 Bd5+ 33. Rxd5 Nxd5 34. Qxb5
Rc3+ 35. Ke2 Nf6 36. Kd1 Ke6 37. a4 Ne4 38. Qb6+ d6 39. a5
Rd3+ 40. Ke2 Nc5 41. Qxc5 dxc5 42. Kxd3 Kd5 43. a6 Kc6 44. Kc4
1-0
Originally posted by SquelchbelchGood game - piece sacrifice was correct - black made mistake with 18...Qb8, but also after 18...Qc8 (only move) 19.Rae1 white should get dangerous attack.
Just out of interest I give you H. Langrock's assessment of the N(g)e7 system.
[b]1.e4...c5
2.d4...cxd4
3.c3...dxc3
4.Nxc3...Nc6
5.Nf3...e6
6.Bc4...a6
7.0-0...N(g)e7
Langrock states that with usual Morra development 8.Qe2, 9.Rd1 white can't even hope for equality if black knows what he is doing.
The critical move here is
8.Bg5
40. Ke2 Nc5 41. Qxc5 dxc5 42. Kxd3 Kd5 43. a6 Kc6 44. Kc4
1-0[/b]
But I would not say that plan 0-0, Qe2, Be3, Rad1 is not useful too.
Our own David Tebb played the correct continuation in the N(g)e7 defence winning against N Povah (1994) also.
[Event "London op"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "1994"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "David Tebb"]
[Black "Nigel Povah"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "52"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Nc6 6.Bc4 Nge7
7.Bg5 f6 8.Be3 a6 9.O-O b5 10.Bb3 Ng6 11.Nd4 Bb7 12.Qh5
Nxd4 13.Bxd4 b4 14.Na4 Be7 15.Rae1 Bc6 16.f4 Rb8 17.f5
Qa5 18.e5 Bxa4 19.Bxa4 Qxa4 20.fxg6 b3 21.gxh7+ Kd8
22.Bc3 f5 23.axb3 Rxb3 24.Qf7 Bc5+ 25.Kh1 Qh4 26.Qg8+
1-0
Originally posted by SquelchbelchI remember this game well, since I was sitting at the next board! Although often played, I think 7...f6 is rather weak. 7...h6!
Our own David Tebb played the correct continuation in the N(g)e7 defence winning against N Povah (1994) also.
[Event "London op"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "1994"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "David Tebb"]
[Black "Nigel Povah"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "52"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 dx ...[text shortened]... .gxh7+ Kd8
22.Bc3 f5 23.axb3 Rxb3 24.Qf7 Bc5+ 25.Kh1 Qh4 26.Qg8+
1-0
Originally posted by z00tYou go play as black in a 2 hour game vs. fritz and post the game here. KG or no KG it doesn't matter... the skill of the players will compensate for any slight disadvantage white gives themselves. Better openings, perhaps. Unsound, I don't really think so.
I made the unusual step of contacting one or two GMs and seeking their opinions on the Smith Morra and King's Gambit. While I do not want to reveal their names or write word for word what was written because I had not said I would be using their feedback in a public forum, these are their conclusions :-
King's Gambit - none of the respondents answered.
Sm ...[text shortened]... ed GMs for being approachable by players of our level and for honest feedback.
z00t! z00t!
Yesterday's chessgames.com game of the day may classify as a Mickey Mouse opening. 🙂
Charles Kennaugh vs Kamran G Shirazi 0-1
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1261101
Shirazi plays some pretty cool stuff...
Nothing wrong with lots of gambit lines of a pawn unless the attack breaks and your opponent gets to consolidate. Examples of sound pawn sacs with black may be found in the 8...Ne6 line of the Fritz variation of the Two Knights, Marshall and Benko gambits.
Here is a game that impressively illustrates the power of dynamic compensation over material.
GandalftheGrey-Stephane
Game 2824906
Gambit lines do require both sides to be particularly resourceful and may require opponents to understand the theory very well.
Here is a perfectly sound line in the Poison Pawn variation of the Sicilian. Sometimes it's ok to sacrifice material for dynamic compensation!
[Event "Monarch Assurance 15th"]
[Site "Port Erin"]
[Date "2006.09.23"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Shabalov,Alexander"]
[Black "Areshchenko,Alexander"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "B97"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Qb6 8.Qd2 Qxb2
9.Rb1 Qa3 10.e5 dxe5 11.fxe5 Nfd7 12.Ne4 h6 13.Bb5 hxg5 14.Rb3 Qxa2 15.Qc3 axb5 16.Qxc8+ Ke7
17.0-0 Qa7 18.Rd3 Nxe5 19.Nc5 Nbd7 20.Nf5+ exf5 21.Rxd7+ Kf6 22.Rxf7+ Kg6 23.Qxf5+ Kh6 1/2
13. Bh4 is a viable alternative (and better since the above line leads to a dead end), but after extensive analysis, I think the game is a dead draw if both sides play god-like, which is very unlikely since Fritz8 (which aided me in the postgame analysis of the line below) alone cannot work its way well through the pitfalls.
My analysis below was based on main-line theory of the poison pawn vars, which was incidentally played at RHP through 21 moves. I pruned many of the worse lines, but it is possible I could have made mistakes. 🙂
[Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"]
[Date "2007.07.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stephane"]
[Black "Improv"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B97"]
[Annotator "Yuga"]
[PlyCount "61"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Qb6 8. Qd2
Qxb2 9. Rb1 Qa3 10. e5 dxe5 11. fxe5 Nfd7 12. Ne4 h6 13. Bh4 Qxa2 14. Rd1 Qd5
15. Qe3 Qxe5 16. Be2 Bc5 17. Bg3 Bxd4 18. Rxd4 Qa5+ 19. Rd2 O-O 20. Bd6 Rd8 21.
Qg3 Qf5 22. Be5 Qg6 (22... Nxe5 23. Rxd8+ Kh7 24. Nd6 Nf3+ 25. Qxf3 Qa5+ 26.
Kd1 Qa1+ 27. Kd2 Qa5+ 28. c3 Qxd8 29. Qxf7 Kh8 30. Bd3 $18) 23. Qh4 Nc6 24. O-O
f5 25. Bh5 Qh7 26. Qg3 Kh8 (26... fxe4 27. Bg6 Ncxe5 28. Bxh7+ Kxh7 29. Qh4 e3
30. Qe4+ Kh8 31. Rd6 Rb8 32. Rxe6 Nf6 (32... e2 33. Qxe2 b5 34. Rxe5 Nxe5 35.
Qxe5 Rb7 36. Qc5 Kh7 37. c4 bxc4 38. Qxc4 Rbd7 39. Qe4+ Kg8 40. Qe6+ Kh7 41. h3
Bb7 42. Rf7 Rxf7 43. Qxf7 Be4 44. Qe6 Rd1+ 45. Kf2 Bd3 46. Qd5 Rf1+ 47. Ke3 Bg6
48. h4 Rf5 49. Qd4 h5 50. g4 hxg4 51. Qxg4 Re5+ 52. Kd2 a5 53. Qf4 $11) 33.
Rexf6 gxf6 34. Qf4 Rd6 35. Qxh6+ Kg8 36. Qxe3 b6 37. Rxf6 Rd1+ 38. Rf1 Rxf1+
39. Kxf1 Nd7 40. h4 Kf7 $16) 27. Bc7 Rf8 28. Bd6 Nf6 29. Nxf6 Rxf6 30. Be8 a5
31. Qa3 $11 1-0
The point is not to start memorizing lots of lines like these, because that's not at all efficient (although an excellent way to procrastinate, I might add); it shows that in sharp lines like these (naturally gambit lines are fairly sharp), both sides have to be very resourceful and exceptionally accurate to maintain the balance.
Originally posted by YugaShirazi is indeed in many respects quite an amazing player, but in the game you quote his opening, though tremendously inventive, is objective garbage. If white plays 8.dxe4 first and then g4, black is simply dead in the water - the king can never escape.
Yesterday's chessgames.com game of the day may classify as a Mickey Mouse opening. 🙂
Charles Kennaugh vs Kamran G Shirazi 0-1
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1261101
Shirazi plays some pretty cool stuff...
Nothing wrong with lots of gambit lines of a pawn unless the attack breaks and your opponent gets to consolidate. Examples of soun ...[text shortened]... ful and exceptionally accurate to maintain the balance.