Game Mods disbanded

Originally posted by no1marauder
I don't know if it's been fixed in Fritz 11, but earlier versions were constantly giving large numerical advantages to a side with a pawn up in an opposite colored bishop ending that any experienced player could tell was a dead draw.

Could you give a few example positions?
I have Fritz9 and have never seen that occur.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Not exactly opposite coloured bishops 😛 But it's the same principle.

After 2 minutes it says +-4.55 but given the black side easily holds the draw.When you then go back it says +=0.33.Horizoneffect at work I guess.

Does Fritz8 hold the draw?Because it might evaluate a position wrong but at the same time play it right,making the wrong evaluation a moot point.

Originally posted by Katastroof
Not exactly opposite coloured bishops 😛 But it's the same principle.

After 2 minutes it says +-4.55 but given the black side easily holds the draw.When you then go back it says +=0.33.Horizoneffect at work I guess.

Does Fritz8 hold the draw?Because it might evaluate a position wrong but at the same time play it right,making the wrong evaluation a moot point.

This is an effect of retaining hash tables. An engine often cannot see the true value of a move until several moves down the line but can then retain that knowledge if stepped backwards from the final position. This is why good interfaces do their analysis backwards (i.e. starting at the last move rather than the first) so that they have already assessed the positions that the good (or bad) move leads to.

Originally posted by Katastroof
Could you give a few example positions?
I have Fritz9 and have never seen that occur.

Just drop a couple of oppsite colour bishops on the board give one side a few pawns and the other side none. Let fritz try and work it out.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Just drop a couple of oppsite colour bishops on the board give one side a few pawns and the other side none. Let fritz try and work it out.

Yeah,I tried that of course.With a 1 pawn difference,not a few pawns.It always said =0.00,hence why I wanted to see some positions where it cannot spot the draw.Maybe it takes more pawns,like 3 vs 4 or 4 vs 5,will try that 🙂

Originally posted by Katastroof
Yeah,I tried that of course.With a 1 pawn difference,not a few pawns.It always said =0.00,hence why I wanted to see some positions where it cannot spot the draw.Maybe it takes more pawns,like 3 vs 4 or 4 vs 5,will try that 🙂

3 vs 0 pawns in oppsite colour bishops is a draw a lot of the time, fritz will most likely get those wrong if you dont have tablebase.

Originally posted by Bedlam
3 vs 0 pawns in oppsite colour bishops is a draw a lot of the time, fritz will most likely get those wrong if you dont have tablebase.

Yes,but 3 vs 0 would be much harder to calculate.I could understand it can't spot such a draw.But with just 1 pawn difference,as marauder stated,I'd be surprised.Would make Fritz look a little silly and that's always good 🙂

edit: and I don't have tablebases

The post that was quoted here has been removed

...........you missed a win

Originally posted by Katastroof
Yes,but 3 vs 0 would be much harder to calculate.I could understand it can't spot such a draw.But with just 1 pawn difference,as marauder stated,I'd be surprised.Would make Fritz look a little silly and that's always good 🙂

edit: and I don't have tablebases

Yes but it will think even obvious drawn positions are won etc and will keep doing so for 40 or so moves while it pushes wood around 🙂

Originally posted by Katastroof
Does Fritz8 hold the draw? "Game 4873194" Because it might evaluate a position wrong but at the same time play it right,making the wrong evaluation a moot point.

there's no draw, show it to me.

Originally posted by eldragonfly
there's no draw, show it to me.

88...Bxd7 89.Kxd7 Kh8 and white is not able to get out black king from corner without making stalemate.

Originally posted by Korch
88...Bxd7 89.Kxd7 Kh8 and white is not able to get out black king from corner without making stalemate.

you're right i missed that.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I don't know if it's been fixed in Fritz 11, but earlier versions were constantly giving large numerical advantages to a side with a pawn up in an opposite colored bishop ending that any experienced player could tell was a dead draw.

I think most engines will say black is winning on this one and Berliner also has a very nice example on "The System" but since I am not at home I can't show it.