Originally posted by NordlysDarn right. I use opening databases because my opening game and theory is weak. It's 25 years since I last seriously studied my openings, so I need to find my feet again. They're of limited value though. Each opening has many, many branches and many options. You can choose the main line or go down one of the lesser used branches if it suits your playing style. You always have choices. More usually, the database line only lasts 3 or 4 moves before your opponent varies from the database line. In this case, you're on your own and it's up to you to figure out why this is probably a weaker line than the main line - then it's time for some serious thinking about how you can best exploit the position. Often there's a theory behind the opening about developing lines, attacking squares, etc, so it forces you to think about the theory and often it's best just to keep on with your intended development line. It's all about understanding the reasons for the move, rather than just blindly following.
The point, at least for me, is to learn. When I use a database, I don't follow it blindly, but try to understand the moves. I also still think about alternatives, and if I don't understand the "book move", I might play something else to see what that leads to. And in the not unlikely case that it leads to a lot of trouble, it may help me understand why t ...[text shortened]... ve been better. I could try to figure it out all by myself, but that would take a lot more time.
Originally posted by buffalobillI'm not sure what database you're using, but once I got to playing people above 1400, with the very rare exeption, they follow the book for at least 7 full moves. And in some games I've gotten to 12, 13, 14 moves; even against opponents who weren't using a book themselves. And books can be useful even for times when the opponents move was not played before. If you can find a similar move, the opening plans are still the same. I'll often use the book even a few moves after we've left it. You have to be careful, but it's still very useful.
Darn right. I use opening databases because my opening game and theory is weak. It's 25 years since I last seriously studied my openings, so I need to find my feet again. They're of limited value though. Each opening has many, many branches and many options. You can choose the main line or go down one of the lesser used branches if it suits your playin ...[text shortened]... ine. It's all about understanding the reasons for the move, rather than just blindly following.
Originally posted by ark13Thats when you throw a crazy move out there to throw your opponent off. lol
I'm not sure what database you're using, but once I got to playing people above 1400, with the very rare exeption, they follow the book for at least 7 full moves. And in some games I've gotten to 12, 13, 14 moves; even against opponents who weren't using a book themselves. And books can be useful even for times when the opponents move was not played befo ...[text shortened]... ook even a few moves after we've left it. You have to be careful, but it's still very useful.
Originally posted by ark13Just Chessgames.com and a few books. Never even got close to 12 moves, but by then I would have almost certainly thrown in a different move if that line wasn't to my liking. Depends on the opponent, of course.
I'm not sure what database you're using, but once I got to playing people above 1400, with the very rare exeption, they follow the book for at least 7 full moves. And in some games I've gotten to 12, 13, 14 moves; even against opponents who weren't using a book themselves. And books can be useful even for times when the opponents move was not played befo ...[text shortened]... ook even a few moves after we've left it. You have to be careful, but it's still very useful.
I started out using an opening database, but find I didn't start enjoying the game until one of us made a move not in the data base. This usually happens before the fifth move.
Lately I've been ignoring the data base, playing the openings on my own. Now I can enjoy my games from move one.
Databases can be a helpful learning tool, particularly if you are focusing on one opening. It is a faster learning method than reinventing the wheel. It is important however to understand why you are playing a move and how it fits in to your overall plan. Otherwise you haven't learned anything. Just because white has a 65% statistic at a given point in your game, that doesn't mean you as white are going to win. You have to understand what to do when the database ends and that is why you have to know how all the moves you have made so far fit together.
Actually I think a great many games on RHP are, in fact, lost in the opening. If you have someone who has played 700 games and won 650 of them, you better believe that 500 of them were won in the opening. The loser probably not even aware that he had a significant problem at move 10, becuase it may have been closer to move 20 before that Old Sinking Feeling set in. I believe that before very long, a new chess player should, in fact, begin to focus in on one or two openings as white and two or three as black. It helps him/her to learn to develop a game plan and speeds their chess development.
Originally posted by MotownDaveI agree with that. Two years ago I was just making moves that I thought might be good or I would thrash an opponent for making the wrong move at school tournaments. Now at those tournaments I try and figure out why he moved there what am I going to do next how do I stop this that and the other but I still sometimes just dont knwo why I am making the move. Is there anyway to improve on that. Figuring out why this move is good and how to become positional.
Databases can be a helpful learning tool, particularly if you are focusing on one opening. It is a faster learning method than reinventing the wheel. It is important however to understand why you are playing a move and how it fits in to your overall plan. Otherwise you haven't learned anything. Just because white has a 65% statistic at a given point ...[text shortened]... as black. It helps him/her to learn to develop a game plan and speeds their chess development.
I have used them but not with much success, i haven't worked out how to use it correctly yet. As i think it has ben mentioned, the problem arrises when there is a new variation that is clearly a winner, but it either doesn't appear in your database or it is so new it only appears once or twice. When you actually look at the statistics for that line you realize that they are clearly incorrect, as the previous 100 games in that line are obselete, as this new move has refuted them. Unless you actually play through ALL the recent games in the variation you intend to play you open yourself up to a thorough beating.
I don't bring it out for live games any more. I've decided it is a great learning tool but if i am to improve, reliance on a database will in the long term prove more of a hinderance than a help.
Originally posted by buffalobillI played a Marshall Attack in which my opponent improved on a line (from a Leko game) in Lalic's The Marshall Attack on move 23! It was one of my more instructive losses.
Just Chessgames.com and a few books. Never even got close to 12 moves, but by then I would have almost certainly thrown in a different move if that line wasn't to my liking. Depends on the opponent, of course.