17 Feb 12
6 edits
Originally posted by PhySiQ
Mr. TomTom,
You do have a good idea - but I think white holds the pawn and stays safe... White doesn't need to touch the Knight on e4.
[pgn]1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. Nf3 d6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bd2 O-O 7. e3 c6
8. Bd3 d5 9. O-O Bf5 10. Bxf5 gxf5 11. cxd5 Ne4 12. dxc6 Nxc6 13. Qb3 Qd7 { Basically a must } 14. Rac1 { White looks good here. Maybe not win ...[text shortened]... g, but white looks better here in my mind then after Bxf3 in my earlier variation } [/pgn]
Q
17 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by tomtom232White will create a passed pawn if black neglectfully plays e5. White responds with 14. d5 Ne7 15. Rf1d1
[pgn]1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. Nf3 d6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bd2 O-O 7. e3 c6
8. Bd3 d5 9. O-O Bf5 10. Bxf5 gxf5 11. cxd5 Ne4 12. dxc6 Nxc6 13. Qb3 e5 14. Qxb7 {probably not the best reply... just showing that Qd7 isn't a must} exd4 15. Qxc6 Nxd2 16. Nxd2 dxc3 [/pgn]
I think things are quite a lot worse this way. Qd7 really is nearly a must. I think things start slipping to a losing position if it is neglected (I'm including Qb6 and Qc7 also - they are both good...they're the same idea. Any of the three is ok - outside of that things start slipping).
Q
17 Feb 12
Originally posted by PhySiQBah, you got me. I thought I could find something cheeky for d5 but nothing quite works out.
White will create a passed pawn if black neglectfully plays e5. White responds with 14. d5 Ne7 15. Rf1d1
I think things are quite a lot worse this way. Qd7 really is nearly a must. I think things start slipping to a losing position if it is neglected (I'm including Qb6 and Qc7 also - they are both good...they're the same idea. Any of the three is ok - outside of that things start slipping).
Q
17 Feb 12
2 edits
Originally posted by tomtom232
[pgn]1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. Nf3 d6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bd2 O-O 7. e3 c6
8. Bd3 d5 9. O-O Bf5 10. Bxf5 gxf5 11. cxd5 Ne4 12. dxc6 Nxc6 13. Qb3 e5 14. d5 [/pgn]
I guess 16 white can grab the b pawn instead. I don't know, I guess it just doesn't work.
17 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by tomtom232ok here we go. A safer approach.
[pgn]1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. Nf3 d6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bd2 O-O 7. e3 c6
8. Bd3 d5 9. O-O Bf5 10. Bxf5 gxf5 11. cxd5 Ne4 12. dxc6 Nxc6 13. Qb3 e5 14. d5 Ne7 15. Rad1 Nc8 16. Bc1 Nd6 [/pgn]
I guess 16 white can grab the b pawn instead. I don't know, I guess it just doesn't work.
17 Feb 12
Originally posted by tomtom232Right. If black plays that d5 - white wants to play cxd5...white will delay his castle. d5 isn't bad necessarily but black should be careful as to how he plays it, and when.
ok here we go. A safer approach.
[pgn]1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. Nf3 d6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bd2 O-O 7. e3 c6
8. Bd3 d5 9. O-O dxc4 10. Bxc4 Bf5 {now that we have improved our light squared bishop we can play for a c5 advance.}[/pgn]
Q
17 Feb 12
Originally posted by PhySiQcxd5 ....cxd5 looks a bit drawish to me. If I saw two GMs in that position I would predict a draw.
Right. If black plays that d5 - white wants to play cxd5...white will delay his castle. d5 isn't bad necessarily but black should be careful as to how he plays it, and when.
Q
18 Feb 12
Originally posted by PhySiQI guess we just have a difference of opinion. In the line you suggest after 11.... Nbd7 I just feel black has no compensation for the 2 bishops. Not sure about 12. Rad1 though. I think white should be playing on the queenside.
When I take both sides of the board I think their are plans for black that actually lend to blacks choice. I'm not sure its the best continuation, but I don't think its bad. To me black chose to trade off two pieces of relatively little importance at this stage in the game. Its difficult to call such a decision a "mistake" because I think each side is stil ...[text shortened]... ing up, it hands him the board.
Black is fine in my mind, he has counterplay.
Q
18 Feb 12
Originally posted by queenabberOh! We certainly agree that white should be playing on the queenside. The Rad1 was proposed due to the passed pawn (d pawn). If things stay equal as in some of the other lines we've all discussed, then my feeling is that the a1 rook will probably be most at home at c1, as is typical in the QG.
I guess we just have a difference of opinion. In the line you suggest after 11.... Nbd7 I just feel black has no compensation for the 2 bishops. Not sure about 12. Rad1 though. I think white should be playing on the queenside.
Q