Game 4288575
10. …Qf6? – Nbc6 must be played here.
12. Rxe7! – Fritz had a hard time finding this but it is winning.
This game goes to show one thing, sound or not, wild gambits are extremely effective at pretty much every level. If the tactics in these lines are complicated enough that fritz occasionally misses one, then who can legitimately assume that anyone on this site can accurately defend lines such as the Muzio or Traxler consistently when some of the strongest engines in the game can make mistakes in those lines!
Go wild chess!!!
Originally posted by ih8sensFor those that wonder why black resigned.
Game 4288575
10. …Qf6? – Nbc6 must be played here.
12. Rxe7! – Fritz had a hard time finding this but it is winning.
This game goes to show one thing, sound or not, wild gambits are extremely effective at pretty much every level. If the tactics in these lines are complicated enough that fritz occasionally misses one, then who can legitimately ...[text shortened]... some of the strongest engines in the game can make mistakes in those lines!
Go wild chess!!!
15. ... Bg7;
16. Bc3 .. Qh6;
17. Ne7+ .. Kh8;
18. Nf5 wins.
or
15. ... Qg6;
16. Ne7+ wins.
and if
15. ... Kh8;
16. Bc3+ .. f6;
17. NXf6 .. Bg7;
18. RXf4 .. QXf4 (there is nothing else);
19. QXf4 .. d5;
20. Qg5 .. Nc6 (if 20. ... dXc4; 21. Nh5 .. BXc3; 22. bXc3 and mate soon follows;
21. BXd5 and whites attack is over whelming.
Originally posted by ih8sensWow and to think I doubted you on this one lol
Game 4288575
10. …Qf6? – Nbc6 must be played here.
12. Rxe7! – Fritz had a hard time finding this but it is winning.
This game goes to show one thing, sound or not, wild gambits are extremely effective at pretty much every level. If the tactics in these lines are complicated enough that fritz occasionally misses one, then who can legitimately ...[text shortened]... some of the strongest engines in the game can make mistakes in those lines!
Go wild chess!!!
Originally posted by ih8sensNice game; one rarely sees the muzio, so it's nice when someone comes up with a nice game with it.
Game 4288575
10. …Qf6? – Nbc6 must be played here.
12. Rxe7! – Fritz had a hard time finding this but it is winning.
This game goes to show one thing, sound or not, wild gambits are extremely effective at pretty much every level. If the tactics in these lines are complicated enough that fritz occasionally misses one, then who can legitimately ...[text shortened]... some of the strongest engines in the game can make mistakes in those lines!
Go wild chess!!!
Originally posted by ih8sensAs a King's Gambit player myself, I really wish the Muzio were sound, but I really don't think it is. After 6...Qf6 white has at best a draw by repetition, but recent correspondence games now seem to show that the old move 6...Qe7 leads to an advantage for black.
Game 4288575
10. …Qf6? – Nbc6 must be played here.
12. Rxe7! – Fritz had a hard time finding this but it is winning.
This game goes to show one thing, sound or not, wild gambits are extremely effective at pretty much every level. If the tactics in these lines are complicated enough that fritz occasionally misses one, then who can legitimately ...[text shortened]... some of the strongest engines in the game can make mistakes in those lines!
Go wild chess!!!
Originally posted by Northern Ladthanx for that little tidbit as I am now playing a game against him with the Muzio because he thinks it is sound and I don't...and I plan on proving him wrong! 😏
As a King's Gambit player myself, I really wish the Muzio were sound, but I really don't think it is. After 6...Qf6 white has at best a draw by repetition, but recent correspondence games now seem to show that the old move 6...Qe7 leads to an advantage for black.
Originally posted by tomtom232Good luck, but don't blame me if you get squashed! (lol) The Muzio can still be a bit dangerous in practice if you don't take care.
thanx for that little tidbit as I am now playing a game against him with the Muzio because he thinks it is sound and I don't...and I plan on proving him wrong! 😏
Originally posted by Northern Ladin other words, you[tomtom232]'re going to lose because you can't handle the sharpness of it!
Good luck, but don't blame me if you get squashed! (lol) The Muzio can still be a bit dangerous in practice if you don't take care.
we say that Qe7 leads to black advantage, but that means that black gets a tiny advantage that masters and up can spot/employ. at your level, the Muzio is still a force to be reckoned with.
Originally posted by rubberjaw30I am going to laugh in yours and ih8sens face when I do win...might as well just do it now....HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! in your face!
in other words, you[tomtom232]'re going to lose because you can't handle the sharpness of it!
we say that Qe7 leads to black advantage, but that means that black gets a tiny advantage that masters and up can spot/employ. at your level, the Muzio is still a force to be reckoned with.
Originally posted by tomtom232I'm not going to quote the game again as I have done so too many times before but I suffered one of my worst ever defeats as black playing against the Muzio.
I am going to laugh in yours and ih8sens face when I do win...might as well just do it now....HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! in your face!
It didn't help that I followed a losing line in a book I had and subsequent analysis showed a draw or win may have been possible but finding it over the board was not easy.
The current state of play with the Muzio is as follows:
The double piece sac (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.0-0 gxf3 6.Qxf3 Qf6 7.e5 Qxe5 8.Bxf7+? Kxf7 9.d4 Qf5!) is demonstrably unsound. The normal line (8.d3) may just about be OK, but it seems the best white can hope for here is a draw.
The other main line 6...Qe7 7.d4 Nc6 8.Nc3 (8.c3 Ne5!) Nxd4 9.Qd3 Ne6 10.Nd5 Qc5+ 11.Kh1 b5 12.Bb3, based on an old Steinitz-Anderssen game, is clearly inadequate for white after 12...Bb7! In an earlier post I claimed a forced advantage for black with 6...Qe7 based on white's other try (7.Qxf4) also being good for black according to ECO C 5th Edition, which gives a correspondence game Bar-Blankenberg 2001 7.Qxf4 Qc5+ 8.Rf2 Qxc4 9.Qe5+ Ne7 10.Qxh8 Qxe4 11.Nc3 Qe1+ 12.Rf1 Qh4 as clearly better for black. I haven't been able to find this game on any database, so I don't know how it continued. However, having looked at this position in more detail (admittedly with some silicon assistance), I'm not so sure.
My analysis goes 13.d4 d5 (13...Ng6 14.Bg5!! Qxg5 15.Rae1+ Ne7 16.Rxe7+! Qxe7 17.Nd5 Qd6 18.Nc7+!) 14.Bf4 Ng6 15.Qg8 Be6 (15...Nxf4 16.Rae1+ Ne6 17.Qxf7+ Kd8 18.Nxd5 Qxd4+ 19.Kh1 Qxd5 [19...Qg7 20.Nxc7! Qxf7 21.Rxf7 Nxc7 22.Rxf8+ Kd7 23.Rd1+ with a slight endgame advantage for white] 20.Rad1 Qd6 21.Rxd6+ cxd6 22.Re1 is not entirely clear, though I certainly don't think white is worse) 16.Rae1 Nc6 (16...Kd7 17.Rxe6! fxe6 18.Nxd5! exd5 [18...Nc6! transposes to main line] 19.Qxd5+ Bd6 20.Bxd6 Kc8 [20...cxd6 21.Qxb7+] 21.Bg3 with two pawns and a strong attack for the piece) 17.Nxd5 Kd7 18.Rxe6! fxe6 19.g3 Nce7! 20.Qf7 Qh3 21.Nf6+ Kc6 22.Rf3... (continued in next post)