Originally posted by mtthw8....d6 is the mainline I'm pretty sure (Edit: I was wrong.😛)(Maybe this and O-O are interchangable?), I was hoping I could avoid all those with 8.a4, but it seems that I'll have to learn those too then? Of course, I could play 9.d4 actually which seems to do ok.
That's the Ruy Lopez main line. White usually just plays 8.c3. Then 8...0-0 9. h3 (to prevent Bg4), at which point black has various different options.
This is still bothering me - how is it that with a huge percentage of Ruy players I still haven't got a single solid recommendation?
Originally posted by cmsMasterMy results on RHP with Ruy Lopez P17 W11 D4 L2. A solid plus!
8....d6 is the mainline I'm pretty sure (Edit: I was wrong.😛)(Maybe this and O-O are interchangable?), I was hoping I could avoid all those with 8.a4, but it seems that I'll have to learn those too then? Of course, I could play 9.d4 actually which seems to do ok.
This is still bothering me - how is it that with a huge percentage of Ruy players I still haven't got a single solid recommendation?
Edit: I was black in all those games. Is that OK?
Originally posted by cmsMasterWhats the point of that if it is lost.
I'm going to be playing it as white.
The Kings Gambit is better as white.
Edit: More seriously I always used to be a Ruy Lopez player but changed this year to KG as I wasn't getting the results I wanted. As black I also always tended to struggle against the RL but the Open variation, which I returned to here after an absense of 20 years, has got my favorable results here
Originally posted by cmsMasterYou're right, d6 and 0-0 are interchangeable in the main line, but only 0-0 first allows the Marshall.
8....d6 is the mainline I'm pretty sure (Edit: I was wrong.😛)(Maybe this and O-O are interchangable?), I was hoping I could avoid all those with 8.a4, but it seems that I'll have to learn those too then? Of course, I could play 9.d4 actually which seems to do ok.
This is still bothering me - how is it that with a huge percentage of Ruy players I still haven't got a single solid recommendation?
So after 7...0-0, if you want to avoid the Marshall 8.a4 is a decent option (I've been playing it recently). 8.h3 and 8.d3 are other options.
After 7...d6 you can safely play 8.c3. 8.a4 is still OK, but I've never tried it in that line. (According to a database I checked it's the second most common move at that point, but nowhere near as common as c3).
(To an extent, almost everything is playable within reason, which is why there are so many known variations)
Originally posted by Dragon FireYour overall results appear to be W 72%, D 18%, L 10%. 11 wins from 17 is only 64%, so you're performing below average. Hardly refutes the opening, does it?
My results on RHP with Ruy Lopez P17 W11 D4 L2. A solid plus!
Edit: I was black in all those games. Is that OK?
(Admittedly I don't know your total success rate with black).
Originally posted by mtthwAfter looking through lines I think against 7...d6 I'll use the 9.d4 variation, which looks great and is played by most of the world's top GM's in my database. Against 7...O-O I can use 8.a4 and avoid the Marshall. This is only until I've got the theory down probably, when I'll start playing mainlines (That won't be for some months probably).
You're right, d6 and 0-0 are interchangeable in the main line, but only 0-0 first allows the Marshall.
So after 7...0-0, if you want to avoid the Marshall 8.a4 is a decent option (I've been playing it recently). 8.h3 and 8.d3 are other options.
After 7...d6 you can safely play 8.c3. 8.a4 is still OK, but I've never tried it in that line. (According to ...[text shortened]... lmost everything is playable within reason, which is why there are so many known variations)
[Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2006.11.16"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Palilo"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C90"]
[WhiteElo "1396"]
[BlackElo "1347"]
[PlyCount "101"]
[EventDate "2006.11.16"]
[TimeControl "180"]
1. e4 {4} e5 {4} 2. Nf3 {1} Nc6 {1} 3. Bb5 {1} a6 {2} 4. Ba4 {0} Nf6 {2} 5. O-O
{2} Be7 {1} 6. Re1 {0} b5 {1} 7. Bb3 {1} d6 {0} 8. c3 {3} Na5 {1} 9. Bc2 {9} c5
{1} 10. d4 {2} Nc6 {5} 11. h3 {2} O-O {2} 12. d5 {1} Na5 {27} 13. Nbd2 {8} h6 {
12} 14. b3 {8} Qc7 {3} 15. Nf1 {1} Bd7 {4} 16. Ne3 {2} Rac8 {2} 17. Nh2 {3} c4
{1} 18. b4 {2} Nb7 {2} 19. Nhg4 {2} Rfe8 {2} 20. Nxf6+ {3} Bxf6 {2} 21. Qh5 {5}
Bg5 {5} 22. Bd1 {17} Rf8 {6} 23. Bg4 {2} Bxg4 {5} 24. Qxg4 {0} Bxe3 {16} 25.
Bxe3 {2} Kh7 {0} 26. Qh4 {3} f5 {4} 27. Bd2 {11} Qf7 {3} 28. a4 {4} fxe4 {7}
29. Rxe4 {1} Nd8 {13} 30. Be3 {4} Qf6 {5} 31. Qxf6 {2} Rxf6 {1} 32. Rg4 {3} Nf7
{4} 33. axb5 {4} axb5 {2} 34. Ra5 {1} Rb8 {1} 35. Ba7 {3} Rb7 {2} 36. Be3 {7}
Nh8 {3} 37. Bd2 {11} Ng6 {1} 38. Re4 {3} Kg8 {7} 39. Re1 {2} Kf7 {1} 40. Rea1 {
2} Nf4 {3} 41. Bxf4 {2} Rxf4 {6} 42. Ra7 {1} Rxa7 {2} 43. Rxa7+ {0} Kf6 {1} 44.
Ra6 {1} Ke7 {3} 45. Rb6 {1} Re4 {0} 46. Rxb5 {2} Re2 {1} 47. Rb7+ {2} Kf6 {1}
48. Ra7 {. 2} Rc2 {1} 49. Ra6 {2} Rc1+ {0} 50. Kh2 {2} Rxc3 {0} 51. Rxd6+ {
Time ' 1} 1-0
There it is, my first game with the Ruy in a long time... Blitz 3-0 and he played 8...Na5 which really threw me off - looks like it transposed into a Chigorin though (right?). My moves 23 and 29 are both blunders (29.Qxe4+ is the move) but overall I'm quite happy with it for a first game, those errors are bound to crop up in blitz. Pretty interesting game, but it got a little boring in the middle for a while - manuvering pieces (probably set on by the awful Rxe4). Anyhow, pretty fun, not as exciting as the KG, but I did feel like I had an advantage pretty much the entire game. BTW:The final position with proper play (which you won't see in a 3-0, especially at that level 😛) is a draw...I think.
Originally posted by mtthwA valid point but this is a debate not a war and I will confess to the Ruy Lopez being my second choice as white and I will go back to it when I get bored with the Kings Gambit or start losing too many games.
Your overall results appear to be W 72%, D 18%, L 10%. 11 wins from 17 is only 64%, so you're performing below average. Hardly refutes the opening, does it?
(Admittedly I don't know your total success rate with black).
The only problem for both white and black is that there are so many valid playable variations that it can be very difficult to learn. I have about 8 books on different Ruy variations each as thick as my one book on the Kings Gambit and there are many more variations. Lately I have played the Open variation as black simply because this seems to take most white players into uncharted water. When I have got this beaten I will devote time to the Marshall.
Originally posted by Dragon FireWell that's because the Ruy is very good for white. I like having the Ruy as an option if I don't feel like entering a game as tactical and risky as the KG.
Further to the above my overall wins as black are 68% so that makes my performance with the Ruy Lopez at 64% slightly below average. :'(
Originally posted by cmsMasterWooo, a slow game win. 🙂
Wait a sec...you don't even play the Ruy anymore 😛, what happened to the light?
[Event "Rated game, 25m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2006.11.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Hehehe"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C88"]
[WhiteElo "1631"]
[PlyCount "99"]
[EventDate "2006.11.17"]
[TimeControl "1500"]
1. e4 {3} e5 {2} 2. Nf3 {1} Nc6 {3} 3. Bb5 {2} a6 {2} 4. Ba4 {1} Nf6 {2} 5. O-O
{2} Be7 {3} 6. Re1 {1} b5 {2} 7. Bb3 {1} Na5 {6} 8. c3 {24} Nxb3 {2} 9. Qxb3 {1
} d6 {1} 10. d4 {2} Be6 {3} 11. Qd1 {3} c6 {12} 12. Nbd2 {16} exd4 {4} 13. cxd4
{1} Bg4 {6} 14. a4 {2} Bxf3 {2} 15. Nxf3 {2} Nd7 {17} 16. a5 {39} Bf6 {14} 17.
e5 {41} dxe5 {3} 18. dxe5 {1} Be7 {4} 19. Qe2 {57} O-O {7} 20. e6 {1} fxe6 {2}
21. Qxe6+ {1} Rf7 {4} 22. Rd1 {116} Bb4 {24} 23. Ne5 {29} Qf6 {61} 24. Qxf7+ {
49} Qxf7 {11} 25. Nxf7 {1} Kxf7 {25} 26. Rxd7+ {2} Kg8 {6} 27. Be3 {8} Re8 {43}
28. Bb6 {7} Re2 {20} 29. Rd8+ {10} Kf7 {5} 30. b3 {13} Bc3 {7} 31. Rad1 {4} Rb2
{13} 32. R1d7+ {14} Ke6 {14} 33. h3 {16} Be5 {17} 34. g3 {62} Rxb3 {3} 35. Ra7
{4} Rb1+ {19} 36. Kg2 {3} b4 {11} 37. Rxa6 {3} b3 {2} 38. Be3 {10} b2 {2} 39.
Rxc6+ {2} Ke7 {15} 40. Bg5+ {23} Bf6 {3} 41. Bxf6+ {2} gxf6 {1} 42. Rb8 {14}
Kd7 {13} 43. Rcb6 {4} Kc7 {10} 44. Rxb2 {6} Ra1 {6} 45. R2b7+ {20} Kc6 {4} 46.
Rb6+ {3} Kc7 {2} 47. R8b7+ {2} Kc8 {5} 48. a6 {1} f5 {25} 49. Rc6+ {4} Kd8 {12}
50. a7 {Hehehe geeft op (Lag: Av=0.35s, max=0.8s) 8} 1-0
After Na5 Nxe5 is best apparently, he took me (and F9 😛) out of book there, so I just played the move that had a chance of transposing into the mainline. Black was a provisional.