21 Feb 07
Originally posted by Northern LadNL - Just wondering what is the positional advantage that white gets? Is it the misplaced queen, perhaps a bit more space and slower development (for black?). If this is the case, it doesn't sound too miserable compared to other openings where black usually is also trying to equalise...
I am not so sure this line is so clearly favourable for white. Equally, the other 'fun' line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Bc4 fxe4 4.Nxe5 d5!? is pretty unclear. I personally gave up playing the Latvian simply because I could see no way to prevent white gaining a fairly unpleasant positional advantage through 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 (4.Nc4 fxe4 4.d3 is also good) d6 5.Nc ...[text shortened]... just about survive with extremely accurate play, but that's hardly an attractive proposition.
BTW, not disputing anything anybody has said here, its just for my own future knowledge as I don't know anything about the Latvian and have never faced it (hopefully never will!) as black/white. cheers 🙂
21 Feb 07
Originally posted by Northern LadAfter 1.e4 e4 2.Nf3 f5 3.exf5 e4 4.Ne5 Black will simply play 4...Nf6 and on 5.Be2 they have at least 2 moves 5...Be7 (which guarantees equality) and 5...d6 (more risky, but it can be dangerous weapon against too self-confident players).
I am not so sure this line is so clearly favourable for white. Equally, the other 'fun' line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Bc4 fxe4 4.Nxe5 d5!? is pretty unclear. I personally gave up playing the Latvian simply because I could see no way to prevent white gaining a fairly unpleasant positional advantage through 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 (4.Nc4 fxe4 4.d3 is also good) d6 5.Nc ...[text shortened]... just about survive with extremely accurate play, but that's hardly an attractive proposition.
After 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 black should play 5....Qg6 with many possible lines, when white must know theory very well to get something more than symbolic advantage against Latvian gambit specialists.
After 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 is good too, but after 4... fxe4 white shouldnt play 5.d3, because after 5...d5 black will get good game. Much better is 5.Nc3
21 Feb 07
Originally posted by KorchSorry, a slip of the typewriter! After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 I meant 5.Nc3 Qg6 and then 6.d3. And I have to say that having tried out the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 Qg6 on a number of occasions as black against strong players, white does seem to obtain quite a bit "more than symbolic advantage".
After 1.e4 e4 2.Nf3 f5 3.exf5 e4 4.Ne5 Black will simply play 4...Nf6 and on 5.Be2 they have at least 2 moves 5...Be7 (which guarantees equality) and 5...d6 (more risky, but it can be dangerous weapon against too self-confident players).
After 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 black should play 5....Qg6 with many possible lines, when white must know theory very well ...[text shortened]... e4 white shouldnt play 5.d3, because after 5...d5 black will get good game. Much better is 5.Nc3
A shame really, since the lines after 3.exf5, 3.Bc4, and 3.d4 can be a lot of fun!
21 Feb 07
2 edits
Originally posted by rubberjaw30A lot of tyros think the Latvian is a reverse King's gambit; It's not. There's no comparison between the two.
actually it truly sucks...
people ONLY have success with it because of opponent unfamiliarity...
if white can just think: ok, i am black, and he is playing king's gambit minus a tempo...
white wins easily if he doesn't get too utterly confused by the opening
They are totally different openings, and it is NOT an easy win for white. It's a complicated nightmare that NOBODY has ever figured out. Capablanca and Fischer have been it's victims (to name a few), so what are you talking about?
22 Feb 07
Originally posted by Dutch DefenseGame 3192620, Game 3187739, Game 3182508
The Latvian Gambit strikes again!
22 Feb 07
Originally posted by petrosianpupili disagree with 3. exf
Do you think the line is good for black?
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 f5
3. exf e4
4. Ne5
I am sure that white gets a very strong advantage. In fact if I were a better player I would consider it a win for white!
i like Nxe5 better there...
let's the queen get to h5, which gives black masters something to deal with immediately (usually with Qf6, I think), and makes it fun for white against a novice with no idea what he's doing...
otherwise, it becomes an equal game, with maybe a SLIGHT advantage for white that only makes a difference at master level...
so, the Latvian Gambit is obviously playable, as there is no immediate refutation.......
I'm just never EVER gonna play it...(as black)
22 Feb 07
http://www.iccf-webchess.com/EventCrossTable.aspx?id=10836
I have some very interesting games going on right now. Main line seems to be 3) Bc4 b5 4) Bb3 fxe4 5)Nc3 Nc6 6) Nxe5 Qg5 . Looks like I'll be playing the same middlegame from both sides of the board. Only one opponent played 3) Nxe5 and that went Qf6 4) Nc4 fxe4 5) Nc3 Qf7
22 Feb 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Dutch DefenseNot to take away from your wins, but your opponents were pretty horrible in those. I think they would have lost in any opening by hanging pieces.
Game 3192620, Game 3187739, Game 3182508
Heres the ICCF games through today:
http://chessmob.org/games/iccf/iccf.htm
22 Feb 07
Originally posted by giantrobotAs soon as I finish a game, I will challenge you to play me against the Latvian Gambit.
Not to take away from your wins, but your opponents were pretty horrible in those. I think they would have lost in any opening by hanging pieces.
Heres the ICCF games through today:
http://chessmob.org/games/iccf/iccf.htm
22 Feb 07
Originally posted by Korch.e4 e4 2.Nf3 f5 3.exf5 e4 4.Ne5 Black will simply play 4...Nf6 and on 5.Be2 they have at least 2 moves 5...Be7 (which guarantees equality)
After 1.e4 e4 2.Nf3 f5 3.exf5 e4 4.Ne5 Black will simply play 4...Nf6 and on 5.Be2 they have at least 2 moves 5...Be7 (which guarantees equality) and 5...d6 (more risky, but it can be dangerous weapon against too self-confident players).
After 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 black should play 5....Qg6 with many possible lines, when white must know theory very well ...[text shortened]... e4 white shouldnt play 5.d3, because after 5...d5 black will get good game. Much better is 5.Nc3
How does black respond to 6. Bh5+
When I used to play this, my opponent who was highly graded would get in a real mess.
23 Feb 07
Originally posted by petrosianpupilAfter 1.e4 e4 2.Nf3 f5 3.exf5 e4 4.Ne5 Nf6 5.Be2 Be7 6.Bh5+ black will respond 6....Qe8 and if 7.Nf7 then 7....Qe8
.e4 e4 2.Nf3 f5 3.exf5 e4 4.Ne5 Black will simply play 4...Nf6 and on 5.Be2 they have at least 2 moves 5...Be7 (which guarantees equality)
How does black respond to 6. Bh5+
When I used to play this, my opponent who was highly graded would get in a real mess.
23 Feb 07
Originally posted by Northern LadAfter 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 5.Nc3 black are nort obliged to play 5...Qg6 (which i really dislike for black), but for example 5....Qf7 or even 5...d6.
Sorry, a slip of the typewriter! After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 I meant 5.Nc3 Qg6 and then 6.d3. And I have to say that having tried out the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 Qg6 on a number of occasions as black against strong players, white does seem to obtain quite a bit "more than symbolic advantage".
A shame really, since the lines after 3.exf5, 3.Bc4, and 3.d4 can be a lot of fun!
But I have seen many games in which after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 fxe4 6.Nc3 Qg6 black have got good position after opening even against stronger players.
23 Feb 07
Originally posted by Dutch DefenseOk, make it at least 7/7 as I am swamped at work. The ICCF tourney will start using a lot of time soon as well. Contact me when you are ready. Do a whois on my domain or simply email me at admin at chessmob.org
As soon as I finish a game, I will challenge you to play me against the Latvian Gambit.
23 Feb 07
Originally posted by Dutch Defenseall these prove is that hanging pieces loses games
Game 3192620, Game 3187739, Game 3182508