Originally posted by paultopiaIt's the exchange ruy,I don't think it's regarded as the main line,though I have noidea what the main line ruy is.It's not played a lot and certainly not at high level.
oh ick, please tell me that's not mainline ruy. I refuse to play in the ruy, that's why I've taken up the alkie as black to e4 (and the latvian occasionally... and the petroff, and the scandinavian... and pretty much anything other than the ruy and the sicilian and the caro... maybe soon the nimzo-indian too)
But that looks horrible, totally coun ...[text shortened]... e... ever had a game where both players resigned??
I'm so glad I don't play the ruy. 😉
Why is there such a fuss about black's doubled pawns?It's not that big of a disadvantage.Many openings give either side doubled pawns and sometimes it's even an advantage in the endgame!
hmm.... I tend to think of doubled pawns, especially on the c file, as an opening/middlegame advantage because of the chance to support a d4/d5 push, especially in double e pawn openings, and get a stronger center, to say nothing of having a yummy semi-open file for a rook. In fact, if I'm FORCED to play one of those annoying direct fight for the center, knights getting pinned left and right, a3 h3 a6 h6 sorts of openings, after I finish throwing up and/or blundering away several pawns and/or sacrificing a knight just to get some of the garbage off the board, I'll often play for doubled c pawns.
But an advantage in the endgame? How? Admittedly, I'm no capablanca. In fact, I tend to give up draws or outright upsets out of won endgames on a disturbingly regular basis (the quickest way to beat me is to simplify to a rook and pawn endgame where I have a slight edge. or, even worse, a minor piece and pawn endgame...), but it would seem like the doubled c pawns would make it impossible or highly difficult to mobilize a queenside pawn majority, even if you have it, and that would be downright icky. White could just sac the d pawn, or trade it, somewhere in the middlegame, and have nothing to fear...
Originally posted by paultopiaPaul, let me hit on the points you brought up.
oh ick, please tell me that's not mainline ruy. I refuse to play in the ruy, that's why I've taken up the alkie as black to e4 (and the latvian occasionally... and the petroff, and the scandinavian... and pretty much anything other than the ruy and the sicilian and the caro... maybe soon the nimzo-indian too)
But that looks horrible, totally coun ...[text shortened]... e... ever had a game where both players resigned??
I'm so glad I don't play the ruy. 😉
1. dxc6 is usually the way Black recaptures. It's away from the center, yes, but remember that "capture towards the center" is only a general principle, not a hard rule. It's correct to capture away from the center a good 30% of the time. In this case, he does so to avoid getting a weak a- pawn, and open a file for his queen and rook to use later. And the doubled c-pawns can be used to hit the center from where they are.
2.After 7.Qe2 Black doesn't have to trade queens right away. He plays 7...Nf6 instead. After the trade things are about even. Black will also have the half-open d- file to work with in the middlegame. The endgame is by no means "lost" for Black. If the endgame is reached with his c- pawns still doubled, White may have some advantage, but normally not enough to win.
Originally posted by paultopiaYep,doubled pawns can ba an advantage in endgames.But it's far too difficult for me to show you,we need a better player than me for that.
hmm.... I tend to think of doubled pawns, especially on the c file, as an opening/middlegame advantage because of the chance to support a d4/d5 push, especially in double e pawn openings, and get a stronger center, to say nothing of having a yummy semi-open file for a rook. In fact, if I'm FORCED to play one of those annoying direct fight for the center, ...[text shortened]... could just sac the d pawn, or trade it, somewhere in the middlegame, and have nothing to fear...
I can show you how doubled pawns are better than a single pawn in a king vs king + pawn(s) endgame 😉
Originally posted by SirLoseALotRight, but that's unlikely to happen in an endgame that arises from the Ruy Lopez Exchange. White will have a 4 vs. 3 majority on the kingside, so he'll be using that majority to play for a win.
Nope,that's it,to get a move delay in an otherwise drawn ending.
Originally posted by paultopiaJust FYI, Paul, the Nimzo-Indian isn't a defense against e4, it's a defense against d4. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4
oh ick, please tell me that's not mainline ruy. I refuse to play in the ruy, that's why I've taken up the alkie as black to e4 (and the latvian occasionally... and the petroff, and the scandinavian... and pretty much anything other than the ruy and the sicilian and the caro... maybe soon the nimzo-indian too)
Originally posted by Natural ScienceYes,I wasn't talking about the ruy anymore,just endgames in general.
Right, but that's unlikely to happen in an endgame that arises from the Ruy Lopez Exchange. White will have a 4 vs. 3 majority on the kingside, so he'll be using that majority to play for a win.
Anyway,wasn't this thread about gambits?! 🙄🙄😲