12 Aug 07
Originally posted by ouwe belgMore likely is that our "endgame master" has created some flawed analysis in which white wins -- then our friend superman hears this wonderful line and now (perhaps overconfidently) suggests nobody in this thread knows what they are talking about.
That endgame master must be some sort of sorceror cause,imo,there's no way white can win that position.
of course, if superman provides an objectivly sound winning line i'll retract that statement.
12 Aug 07
Originally posted by ShinidokiHence why it must be a sorceror.This position requires magic to win it 😉
More likely is that our "endgame master" has created some flawed analysis in which white wins -- then our friend superman hears this wonderful line and now (perhaps overconfidently) suggests nobody in this thread knows what they are talking about.
of course, if superman provides an [b]objectivly sound winning line i'll retract that statement.[/b]
12 Aug 07
Is there anything to the line 1. Rf2 Kf4 2. Rf1?
If 2. ... Kf3 3. Rh1 and the f-pawn is safe for now due to the skewer check at h3. White also now has Kb2 available because the R on h1 now covers the queening square.
Haven't analyzed it fully. Just stared at the diagram for a while. My instincts say it's still a draw as I don't see a way for white to make serious progress. The rook is way overworked if it's trying to keep the f pawn safe with gimmicks *and* mount an attack on the a-pawn. Still, there might be something there if white can force a situation where the a-pawn falls without losing the f-pawn in the process or rooks can be exchanged using the threat of the same.
12 Aug 07
Originally posted by robscullionI looked at that, If I remember correctly black maintains the draw with Ra5, Ra4, etc.
Is there anything to the line 1. Rf2 Kf4 2. Rf1?
If 2. ... Kf3 3. Rh1 and the f-pawn is safe for now due to the skewer check at h3. White also now has Kb2 available because the R on h1 now covers the queening square.
Haven't analyzed it fully. Just stared at the diagram for a while. My instincts say it's still a draw as I don't see a way for white ...[text shortened]... out losing the f-pawn in the process or rooks can be exchanged using the threat of the same.
also, if Kb2 A1=Q+ Rxa8 Rxf3
12 Aug 07
Originally posted by robscullionI see it like this,in plain language without variations.
Is there anything to the line 1. Rf2 Kf4 2. Rf1?
If 2. ... Kf3 3. Rh1 and the f-pawn is safe for now due to the skewer check at h3. White also now has Kb2 available because the R on h1 now covers the queening square.
Haven't analyzed it fully. Just stared at the diagram for a while. My instincts say it's still a draw as I don't see a way for white ...[text shortened]... out losing the f-pawn in the process or rooks can be exchanged using the threat of the same.
Without the help of the king white's pawns aren't going anywhere and as long as Black keeps the rook on the a-file,White has to keep his king on a1 or b2 else tha black pawn promotes.Only way to move the king away from a1-b2 is to place the rook on a1,but then the white pawns fall.
Result: draw.
14 Aug 07
1. Rf2 What do you move? this was his first move
I will analyze this position with him again with all your ideas and post the result here with best play and the full line, all I know is I could not win against him in a lot of wasys we played, maybe I was wrong and was making simple mistakes, we will see.
14 Aug 07
Originally posted by ouwe belgRemember that if one pawn goes one step ahead of the king he will not catch it again and black ends up giving the rook for one pawn.
I see it like this,in plain language without variations.
Without the help of the king white's pawns aren't going anywhere and as long as Black keeps the rook on the a-file,White has to keep his king on a1 or b2 else tha black pawn promotes.Only way to move the king away from a1-b2 is to place the rook on a1,but then the white pawns fall.
Result: draw.
14 Aug 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Supermanthe tablebases the website I have only allowed me to look at the position a pawn down, so, in awnser of your question, i've no idea.
IF a pawn is taken(IF). what does the tablebase says otherwise?
but here's my logic;
1. If a pawn is lost (any white pawn) the game is drawn.
see: http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html
2. so for the win, white must hold both pawns...how?
3. if they can be held, how can they be adavanced?
to be frank superman, I'm very confident that with best play such a position is drawn, simply because I don't think white can do all 3 things, especially seeing as Black will create difficualties with his own pawn.
to further hit home the point, go that website and create the following position.
White :
P@f3, P@e4, R@f2, K@b1
Black :
R@a5 K@e5
with white to move, there is a win in 49 moves, black to move, the position is drawn.
notice, how similiar this position to the one you posted, notice that here white has two connected passed pawns and all black has is a king and a rook.
-- if this position is drawn, don't you think that black having a pawn, which restricts the kings movesment would be EVEN MORE DRAWN?