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Why you should play the Colle!

Why you should play the Colle!

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e

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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you replying to your own posts now? perhaps great learning is driving you insane?
are you replying to anything with actual substance? Or do you just ignore that which you know deep down proves your reasons are illogical.

rc

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Originally posted by erikido
are you replying to anything with actual substance? Or do you just ignore that which you know deep down proves your reasons are illogical.
proves deep down, mmm, have i ever claimed to be deep? have i ever claimed to be logical? Lol, i just found it amusing that you were replying to your own post and wondered the reason. Still the answer evades me.

rc

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Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Robbie and Elador.

I do say:

"The correct move is f4 to stop e5 and the best move order is [b]3.Nf3
then 4.Bd3."

So we all agree what was wrong with White's play.

In most cases at the lower levels at little kowledge is very dangerous.
They know the first two moves 1.d4 2.e3 and the Bishop goes to d3.
Look how many times this has appe ...[text shortened]... balls aching, the better player on the day
wins the game no matter what opening is played.[/b]
what did you think of the Capa game? I really like his chess, i never realised that it was so awesome. What happened to him? Why did he start to lose it? I think if i were to adopt a model it should be Capa, Morphy was just too brilliant, Capa is, but in a different, less spectacular kind of way.

e

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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
proves deep down, mmm, have i ever claimed to be deep? have i ever claimed to be logical? Lol, i just found it amusing that you were replying to your own post and wondered the reason. Still the answer evades me.
Nope you just do dances around what you want to ignore. You post a post asking why not play the colle. I give you answers. You question my answers and when I ask you questions you ignore them. Thought maybe if I worded it differently you would understand(you seem to misunderstand pretty simple things like endgame is not the same thing as complete game).

But, clearly you are dancing around the subject because you have no answer and don't want to admit you are wrong. If that weren't the case you would simply answer the question.
Fine by me-keep trying to dance around the subject. You will always be just as smart as you are now. But, me I will be more confused every day.

n
Ronin

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Robbie- First off, enjoyed your post-

Second, it is not so much that Capa started losing, as Master play had become a professional sport, and Capa was the last of the "Amateur" players who were more interested in the chorus girls then the pocket set.

Avro 1936 game vs Botvinnik is cited often as THE game, but in general I think preparation made it harder for Capa as play became more precise.

greenpawn34

e4

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Capa losing it?

I don't think his gift ever deserted him, he just got older and the younger
generation meaner (and more booked up).

In Avro '36 Botvinnik, to his great credit, does admit at the final combo
all he could see was the perpetual.
The win became clearer after the smoke cleared.

Others point to his decline starting in Moscow in 1925 when he lost to two
middle table Russians: Illin-Genevsky and Verlinsky (the lost v Verlinsky
is cited by Hooper as the worse game of chess Capa ever played.)

n
Ronin

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Let's also keep in mind Capa rarely lost at any stage in his career, and he basically quit chess for a couple years in the 1930's. So when I say pro chess caught up with him we are talking about a nearly 50 year old man circa 1936.

rc

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Originally posted by erikido
Nope you just do dances around what you want to ignore. You post a post asking why not play the colle. I give you answers. You question my answers and when I ask you questions you ignore them. Thought maybe if I worded it differently you would understand(you seem to misunderstand pretty simple things like endgame is not the same thing as complete game). You will always be just as smart as you are now. But, me I will be more confused every day.
i did not realise that your question was directed at me, i thought great learning had driven you to question yourself. Never the less, yes i prefer to play chess that is taxing, but not too taxing, within the limits of my capabilities or just beyond, but not so much that it becomes incomprehensible, by being either too difficult or too easy.

Yes i am also not a bad dancer, you should see me in my kilt 'jiggin', to the rhythm of some ceilidh band.

rc

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Originally posted by nimzo5
Let's also keep in mind Capa rarely lost at any stage in his career, and he basically quit chess for a couple years in the 1930's. So when I say pro chess caught up with him we are talking about a nearly 50 year old man circa 1936.
I now think Capa is awesome, i have been reading some of his annotations with his games against Marshall, quite remarkable considering his opponents stature and experience. Did he retire from chess altogether and like just slink off into the night?

Thanks for your encouragement also and for suggesting looking at Capas games, i am now off to peruse some more like a mouse with a tasty piece of cheese. I may post one of his games against Marshall which highlights Greenpawns points, for Capa plays the opening clearly in an inferior manner yet his middle game and endgame play are outstanding.

E

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Robbie,

Going back to the original question of the thread, I'll give you one reason why I stopped playing the Colle, locked down center!

I played the traditional Colle when I first started playing, then went to the Zuckertort. I liked my fianchettoed bishop, but I found it useless many times because my pawn on d4 was clogging the diagonal!

Once I started playing 1.b3, I no longer had that problem. In certain situations I still play d4, but that's only when I want to play it (which means that doing so will not allow my opponent to clog up the board.

You asked for five reasons, but for me this is one very big reason.

n
Ronin

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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I now think Capa is awesome, i have been reading some of his annotations with his games against Marshall, quite remarkable considering his opponents stature and experience. Did he retire from chess altogether and like just slink off into the night?

Thanks for your encouragement also and for suggesting looking at Capas games, i am now off to per ...[text shortened]... the opening clearly in an inferior manner yet his middle game and endgame play are outstanding.
He took a break for a couple years when it became clear that Alekhine wouldn't give him a rematch. He came back though a few years later and continued to play up until his death. (I seem to recall he had a heart attack at the board the year that Alekhine died but I would have to look it up.)

rc

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Originally posted by Eladar
Robbie,

Going back to the original question of the thread, I'll give you one reason why I stopped playing the Colle, locked down center!

I played the traditional Colle when I first started playing, then went to the Zuckertort. I liked my fianchettoed bishop, but I found it useless many times because my pawn on d4 was clogging the diagonal!

Once I st ...[text shortened]... t to clog up the board.

You asked for five reasons, but for me this is one very big reason.
hi dude, do you have any examples, for i am sure that if you posted them, we could find a solution. Playing the Colle does not seem to me to be a problem, unless we are machine like and follow it without questioning or evaluating the positions which arise. It should not become a tyrant over us, but a tool to achieve a relatively easy development. By all means play b3, it was good enough for Capa. The point of course is, that when we crack open the centre with our e4, our bishop shall be well placed to support a knight on g5 pressuring the castled position of the king and if we can chase away the f6 knight with e5, we shall be in really good shape.

rc

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Originally posted by nimzo5
He took a break for a couple years when it became clear that Alekhine wouldn't give him a rematch. He came back though a few years later and continued to play up until his death. (I seem to recall he had a heart attack at the board the year that Alekhine died but I would have to look it up.)
i did not know that, both Alekhine and Capa died with the chess pieces in their
hands, surely they will get into Valhalla like all good warriors should 🙂

What comes through after looking at Capas games, is that when he is in trouble his
powers of defence are absolutely astonishing, equally formidable as his power of
attack. Ill post a game, his first major tournament, with his own annotations, how
he survived this Ill never know. The annotations are Capas himself, please look
out for this gem, which made me giggle on move 54, i quote,

"Before continuing I should add that the endgame coming is perhaps the finest of its
kind ever played over the board, and that for some unknown reason it has not been
properly appreciated. It is a masterpiece, one of which I am very proud, and which
should be very carefully studied. As I said, nobody thought at the time that the
ending could be won"

Capa v Janowski, San Sabastian, 1911



I hope you enjoy it as much as I did - regards Robbie

Paul Leggett
Chess Librarian

The Stacks

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Originally posted by nimzo5
Robbie- First off, enjoyed your post-

Second, it is not so much that Capa started losing, as Master play had become a professional sport, and Capa was the last of the "Amateur" players who were more interested in the chorus girls then the pocket set.

Avro 1936 game vs Botvinnik is cited often as THE game, but in general I think preparation made it harder for Capa as play became more precise.
I have to admit that, during my whole illustrious chess career, that I have always been more interested in the chorus girls than the pocket set.

But it's been a close-run thing at times.

Paul

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It seems to me that a quick Bf5 from Black neutralizes the Colle.

I don't understand the 'play something simple to get me safely into the middlegame' approach. At what point do you give up the safety-first ideas and start playing for a win? Why delay aggressive play until part-way through the middlegame? Why not play for a win from move one?

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