A Bio Genesis

@sonhouse said
The whole field of quantum physics shows there is no such thing as absolutes.
You can't figure out a moving particle, both mass/energy and position exactly at the same time. This is the truth of the universe.
The universe doesn't let anyone, either here or on some other planet with beings 10,000 years more advanced scientifically, you can't say the energy and the position ...[text shortened]... THE WAY WE ARE TREATING THE PLANET, That would ge my attention. Humans saying that, sorry, no dice.

"The whole field of quantum physics shows there is no such thing as absolutes."

You know that absolutely?

"You can't figure out a moving particle, both mass/energy and position exactly at the same time. This is the truth of the universe."

We cannot figure out a moving particle, both mass/energy and position exactly at the same time, but we are not the universe's creator and sustainer so it doesn't matter. As I told you God is all knowing, timeless, and so on. There isn't anything, anywhere, at any time that He doesn't know all about it, where it was, is, and going as well. He also knows how it is going to react with all other things, and how all other things are going to react to it and everything else as well. We have our limitations so there are things beyond us.

The funny thing about truth, it is very exclusive, what isn't true, isn't true no matter how good it looks or smells. One true God means all others have to be false, that is the truth of a truth statement. If something is true, than its true there is no conflict. The conflicts arise when something false is stated as true, or something true is stated as if it were false.

@kellyjay said
"The whole field of quantum physics shows there is no such thing as absolutes."

You know that absolutely?

"You can't figure out a moving particle, both mass/energy and position exactly at the same time. This is the truth of the universe."

We cannot figure out a moving particle, both mass/energy and position exactly at the same time, but we are not the universe's cre ...[text shortened]... licts arise when something false is stated as true, or something true is stated as if it were false.

You only know what it says in the bible. You have not seen personally the power of this alleged deity and you certainly can't know if such a god could do what is impossible in physics. That is just your opinion and a human opinion at that.
In short, humans don't know JACK about deities.
A real deity would not have 10,000 separate religions and would in my opinion want to have them killing each other over this alleged god.
Say what you want, I'll respect your POV but you have to respect mine also.

@kellyjay said
"The whole field of quantum physics shows there is no such thing as absolutes."

You know that absolutely?

"You can't figure out a moving particle, both mass/energy and position exactly at the same time. This is the truth of the universe."

We cannot figure out a moving particle, both mass/energy and position exactly at the same time, but we are not the universe's cre ...[text shortened]... licts arise when something false is stated as true, or something true is stated as if it were false.

The momentum and position of a particle cannot be simultaneously precisely determined, because that would violate it being a particle in the first place. This has nothing to do with human limits to knowledge.

@kazetnagorra said
The momentum and position of a particle cannot be simultaneously precisely determined, because that would violate it being a particle in the first place. This has nothing to do with human limits to knowledge.

We live in a time period called now, a period of time so small its leading edge and trailing edge occupy the same place, God does not. Limitations upon our universe are ours to deal with, they don't apply to the creator and sustainer of the universe, He isn't bound as we are. With Him there would be no violation.

@kellyjay said
We live in a time period called now, a period of time so small its leading edge and trailing edge occupy the same place, God does not. Limitations upon our universe are ours to deal with, they don't apply to the creator and sustainer of the universe, He isn't bound as we are. With Him there would be no violation.

This is the Science forum - not the appropriate place to fantasize about how the magic man might violate the laws of nature.

@kazetnagorra said
This is the Science forum - not the appropriate place to fantasize about how the magic man might violate the laws of nature.

Blaa, blaa, blaa!
I brought this OP to discuss Chemistry, and wanted that to remain the topic. It isn't my fault others kept responding with faith questions. Even your question had to do with a statement that had God in it.

@kellyjay said
Blaa, blaa, blaa!
I brought this OP to discuss Chemistry, and wanted that to remain the topic. It isn't my fault others kept responding with faith questions. Even your question had to do with a statement that had God in it.

Come on, you know you put up those dudes with the idea of disproving the idea humans can figure out OOL.

For instance, here is one science paper you probably don't want to accept as possible:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/researchers-may-have-solved-origin-life-conundrum

Meteors, meteorites, bringing in Hydrogen Cyanide and Hydrogen sulfide short circuiting the long period of time your guys say made OOL of life by natural processes impossible.

This is another scenario like the interstellar clouds seeding complex prebiotic chemicals on Earth.

I'm sure your response will be quite negative but this is new science just like I said there will be.

@sonhouse said
Come on, you know you put up those dudes with the idea of disproving the idea humans can figure out OOL.

For instance, here is one science paper you probably don't want to accept as possible:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/researchers-may-have-solved-origin-life-conundrum

Meteors, meteorites, bringing in Hydrogen Cyanide and Hydrogen sulfide short circuiting ...[text shortened]... 'm sure your response will be quite negative but this is new science just like I said there will be.

Did you read this?

@kellyjay said
Did you read this?

Of course I read it. The key wording was MAY have found.
I wasn't presenting that piece as proof.
I was presenting that piece as the way science advances.
That was the first shot over the bow and the work has to be independently verified.
We know that. You seem to think there will be no further advancement in OOL studies because that would fly against your religion.
But the same thing was said a century and a half ago about humans being able to fly,
They also said back then scientifically it was impossible for bumblebees to be able to fly......
Just because your buddies made the case for the impossibility of humans solving OOL doesn't mean that is the final answer.
I keep pointing out science is still in kindergarten and we may have to advance our science to the point where we are finally in college but that is how science works, one tiny advance at a time.
I am patient.

@sonhouse said
Of course I read it. The key wording was MAY have found.
I wasn't presenting that piece as proof.
I was presenting that piece as the way science advances.
That was the first shot over the bow and the work has to be independently verified.
We know that. You seem to think there will be no further advancement in OOL studies because that would fly against your religion. ...[text shortened]... we are finally in college but that is how science works, one tiny advance at a time.
I am patient.

The word may didn't mean much to me, they found something no doubt it doesn't mean they can do with it what spoke about with it. Having all the pieces doesn't mean we can use them to put it all together properly. Always learning, but never coming to knowledge, fixed points of truth can be ignored if that is always the case.

@kellyjay said
The word may didn't mean much to me, they found something no doubt it doesn't mean they can do with it what spoke about with it. Having all the pieces doesn't mean we can use them to put it all together properly. Always learning, but never coming to knowledge, fixed points of truth can be ignored if that is always the case.

So for you there can be no level of 'learning' that will answer OOL questions.'
I am just showing you how science works.
There was no mention of either scenario, interstellar organic prebiotic clouds hitting Earth or cyanide laden meteorites, by your chemist dudes and it is my point they won't use either of them because they don't want people to be able to come to the conclusion there may be a way to an answer.

@sonhouse said
So for you there can be no level of 'learning' that will answer OOL questions.'
I am just showing you how science works.
There was no mention of either scenario, interstellar organic prebiotic clouds hitting Earth or cyanide laden meteorites, by your chemist dudes and it is my point they won't use either of them because they don't want people to be able to come to the conclusion there may be a way to an answer.

No, and it has never been that way even with the foundation of science where many of the men at sciences beginning, were believers in God. They didn't stop believing in God simply because they had questions answered, or figured something out, or had a difficult mystery to deal with. Looking at a designed universe, means there are reasons behind the questions, therefore they should be logical and meaningful. Science can only be done because we live in a universe that is build with reason and purpose, making figuring things out possible, the search for answers remain the same.

If there were no reason in the universe, no design, no logic behind it, no purpose, what could you learn from that, nothing!

Seeing how something is done shows us a vast amount of information, looking at the designs in life has shown us a great deal that we can apply to real world mechanical issues.

@kellyjay said
If there were no reason in the universe, no design, no logic behind it, no purpose, what could you learn from that, nothing!

Wrong. We can, as we are doing, learn natural law, such as the laws of physics, and also learn what exists and what is. In fact, there is so much to learn about the universe that no one human can possibly learn all of it! If you don't believe me, just go to one of the really big libraries and see the science section and then try imagine how long it would take to read all those science books!
And "no logic behind it"? Doesn't understanding natural law, such as the laws of physics, involve 'logic'? (often that 'logic' being expressed in the form of maths equations)

@humy said
Wrong. We can, as we are doing, learn natural law, such as the laws of physics, and also learn what exists and what is. In fact, there is so much to learn about the universe that no one human can possibly learn all of it! If you don't believe me, just go to one of the really big libraries and see the science section and then try imagine how long it would take to read all those s ...[text shortened]... aws of physics, involve 'logic'? (often that 'logic' being expressed in the form of maths equations)

You missed the point, the reason you can learn such things is due to how is was made, it was created with design, planning, reasoning behind it. Laws are fixed, they don't fluctuate without cause. So we can see the logic behind them due to how it was made, but these laws don't explain the universe, Newton said as much.

“The planets and comets will constantly pursue their revolu-tions in orbits given in kind and position, according to the laws above explained; but though these bodies may, indeed, continue in their orbits by the mere laws of gravity, yet they could by no means have at first derived the regular position of the orbits themselves from those laws (Principia, “General Scholium,” 1713).”

“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being.(Principia, “General Scholium,” 1713)”

@kellyjay said
You missed the point, the reason you can learn such things is due to how is was made, it was created with design, planning, reasoning behind it.

You missed the point; We have no rational reason to suppose your above assertion is true.
Show us evidence and/or a logical reason to think that the laws of physics were intelligently designed by your particular brand of imagined god...