Can a violin be played underwater?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I go and ask my neighbors kid if he knows how his drums sound like under water.
Then I perhaps will have some peace and quiet around... 😞

Here in the US we have a system where we pay farmers NOT to grow stuff.
You could try telling him you will pay him a small sum NOT to play🙂

Originally posted by PBE6
There's only one way to settle this...get Noodles to play her cello with a pick and record it for us. Actually, I'm going to ask her right now!

While you're at it tell her to take that thing for a swim too and we can get to the bottom of all these questions.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I deg to biffer with you on the guitar. The reason it sounds like it does is because it is a percussive instrument, anything that plucks strings from mandolin to guitar to harpsichord are all percussive and anything bowed is more continuous toned obviously both have overtones (harmonics) and such but the main difference in plucked instruments is the percussive effect, a tone that starts and stops more abruptly than the cello/violin bowed instruments.

I'd rather thought Badwater's explanation made sense.

Think of the timbre of a cello when played pizzicato.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I'd rather thought Badwater's explanation made sense.

Think of the timbre of a cello when played pizzicato.YY

Think about what you just said, pizzicato: that is EXACTLY like playing the guitar, it adds a percussive effect, it IS percussive. People don't often think about the way sounds come out of instruments but when you play with synthesizers you play with the ADSR series all the time and that is the difference between say, flute or violin, than a guitar pick sound. It just means badwater's explanation was not done in strict musical terms.
Do you know what I mean when I say percussive?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Think about what you just said, pizzicato: that is EXACTLY like playing the guitar, it adds a percussive effect, it IS percussive. People don't often think about the way sounds come out of instruments but when you play with synthesizers you play with the ADSR series all the time and that is the difference between say, flute or violin, than a guitar pick sou ...[text shortened]... lanation was not done in strict musical terms.
Do you know what I mean when I say percussive?

Yeah, I understand what you meant when you said "percussive". That's why I pointed out that a cello played like a guitar doesn't sound like a guitar. It's my understanding that the difference is largely due to "undertones and overtones surrounding the fundamental note" as Badwater pointed out.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Yeah, I understand what you meant when you said "percussive". That's why I pointed out that a cello played like a guitar doesn't sound like a guitar. It's my understanding that the difference is largely due to "undertones and overtones surrounding the fundamental note" as Badwater pointed out.

Look up ADSR, it will tell you a lot about how sound is constructed.
Of course under and overtones sculpt the sound but that is not all there is too it. Here is a link, ADSR Envelope in wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADSR_envelope

Originally posted by PBE6
There's only one way to settle this...get Noodles to play her cello with a pick and record it for us. Actually, I'm going to ask her right now!

I played pizzicato in at least one of my music comp entries. Badwater is correct (as one would expect of someone who owns a violin shop, and I seem to remember he builds instruments as well, although I am not sure about that). A plucked cello string sounds quite different from a plucked guitar string, due to a different overtone spectrum.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Do you know what I mean when I say percussive?

I don't think pizzicato is normally classified as percussive. A piano or a cimbalom are classified as percussion instruments because the strings are struck with a hammer rather than plucked.

Originally posted by leisurelysloth
While you're at it tell her to take that thing for a swim too and we can get to the bottom of all these questions.

You call my husband "that thing"? 😠 Anyway, he's hydrophobic.

Originally posted by Nordlys
I don't think pizzicato is normally classified as percussive. A piano or a cimbalom are classified as percussion instruments because the strings are struck with a hammer rather than plucked.

Pizzicato is sonically percussive, it has a high attack rate on the ADSR envelope, anything that has a high attack rate is percussive. Obviously not as percussive as drums, tympani and such, so tympani would be percussive but it has a lower attack rate and has that distinctive booming sound as opposed to the tss sound of higher tension drums which have a faster attack rate. Overtones of course effect the overall sound also but high attack rates are by definition percussive. The sound of a tick vs a hisssss. Percussive sounds attack fast and decay fast the opposite of the bowed cello sound, so pizzicato is in the percussive family of sound.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Pizzicato is sonically percussive, it has a high attack rate on the ADSR envelope, anything that has a high attack rate is percussive. Obviously not as percussive as drums, tympani and such, so tympani would be percussive but it has a lower attack rate and has that distinctive booming sound as opposed to the tss sound of higher tension drums which have a fa ...[text shortened]... y fast the opposite of the bowed cello sound, so pizzicato is in the percussive family of sound.

We should all agree that cellos can be played percussively (pizzicato) and that guitars can be played with a bow (Jimmy Page). But c'mon now sounhouse, admit that cellos sound different than guitars.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62zjlrAruZk

Ah, those crazy swedes, eh?

Originally posted by sonhouse
I deg to biffer with you on the guitar. The reason it sounds like it does is because it is a percussive instrument, anything that plucks strings from mandolin to guitar to harpsichord are all percussive and anything bowed is more continuous toned obviously both have overtones (harmonics) and such but the main difference in plucked instruments is the percussive effect, a tone that starts and stops more abruptly than the cello/violin bowed instruments.

No, because the cello can be a percussive instrument also and it will still sound different. The difference is in the body architecture that produces the tone differently. Put very simply (but by no means the only factor in the difference in sound), a violin's top and back are graduated in thickness, so that it is thicker toward the center of the top than it it on the edges. The graduation gives the instrument its unique vibrational properties.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Everyone inhaling helium and hear himself talk knows that the pitch changes with the density and viscosity of the medium in which the sound is produced...

That is still an air environment. The sound is being generated by the vibration of the string, a piece of metal that will have no problem generating the pitch it is designed for at the tensile strength it is intended for regardless of whether it is surrounded by air or water (water at sea level pressure, that is).

As the frequency of the pitch becomes lower, with less vibrations per second, I would expect then effect of water to become more pronounced. That is to say I think there would be a discernible change in pitch if you were playing a double bass under water that wouldn't happen with violin.

Originally posted by PBE6
We should all agree that cellos can be played percussively (pizzicato) and that guitars can be played with a bow (Jimmy Page). But c'mon now sounhouse, admit that cellos sound different than guitars.

I never said cello's played pizzicato sounded anything like guitars. I said they have different ASDR envelopes, especially in the decay portion, the cello sound dies down faster than the guitar, doesn't resonate as long. Guitars are designed to ring longer than pizzicato played cello's. Cello's don't have to ring because they are bowed so the ASDR envelope is out the window when bowed because it is continuously activated by the bow so the sound reaches an equilibrium instead of decaying as a pluck would because of just having one input of energy.