Evolution of the evolution threads...

Originally posted by sonhouse
You are the one bringing your faith into every statement you make. You have to see the world in creationist terms because of your faith. You denigrate the work of scientists of the last 300 years because of your faith. You equate your faith with what you think is faith in science when in fact science is an ongoing project, where you demand total certainty i ...[text shortened]... lity or low probability but that never sinks in your skull so blinded you are by your own faith.

Hardly, I have several statements on this page, if as you claim I bring
my faith into every statement I make, point out examples from all the
posts on this page. You have your head so warped you don't see what
I'm talking about half the time, but instead you fill in the blanks in
side that head of yours with that crap you spew out. I do not denigrate
the work of sceientists, I do think you have a hero worship thing going
on here to the point it isn't healthy.

With respect to 'total certainty' what does that mean? You are either
certain or you are not, again the way people who believe in evolution
use words is amazing to me, they claim selections are being done by
a process that does not have intent and the list goes on with words
like design now too.

If you are playing in science and as you say there is only probability
not certainty why complain when I say you can be wrong? You admit
you are not certain, you admit you have only a high chance of being
right, which is admitting you can also be wrong.

You are have a lot of hostility, and it clouds your reason and your
ability to just take things said at face value.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Hardly, I have several statements on this page, if as you claim I bring
my faith into every statement I make, point out examples from all the
posts on this page. You have your head so warped you don't see what
I'm talking about half the time, but instead you fill in the blanks in
side that head of yours with that crap you spew out. I do not denigrate
t ...[text shortened]... and it clouds your reason and your
ability to just take things said at face value.
Kelly

Of course we admit we can be wrong, usually are about a lot of things. That doesn't alter the fact that science done right can make predictions that pan out, explain a heck of a lot about our world, our universe, our bodies. I can't help it that you demand certainty in every scientific quest, it is your certainty in your faith that taints every thought you think, automatically biasing your pronouncement with not much in the way of actual study since to do so would cast doubt on your own self generated certainty so all you do is deny deny deny which allows you to keep your deep seeded need for faith since if you lose your faith you think you will fall back into the abyss that led you to your faith in the first place. You are basically afraid of your own shadow for fear you will fall off the wagon.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Of course we admit we can be wrong, usually are about a lot of things. That doesn't alter the fact that science done right can make predictions that pan out, explain a heck of a lot about our world, our universe, our bodies. I can't help it that you demand certainty in every scientific quest, it is your certainty in your faith that taints every thought you ...[text shortened]... first place. You are basically afraid of your own shadow for fear you will fall off the wagon.

I do not demand what cannot be given, but I acknowledge what is
there. Your prejudice haunts your every thought, my complaints in
this forum are based upon issues I see with design not my faith about
God, it is you and others here that keep bringing my faith up as if
doing so means something when we are speaking about odds and
probabilities. I do not attempt to promote my stances here by bringing
in scripture, yet you are willing bring my faith/religion into this
discussion for the very reason to question my motives. My motives
are attempting to question what I’m concerned about, be it some
statement that people believe to be factual when it isn’t, and so on.
I find issues due to design problems I see not because the Bible
tells me there are issues.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
With respect to 'total certainty' what does that mean? You are either
certain or you are not, again the way people who believe in evolution
use words is amazing to me, they claim selections are being done by
a process that does not have intent and the list goes on with words
like design now too.

Here's your problem, KellyJay. I believe that we can be 'largely certain,' or have a 'vague sense of
certainty' on given issues.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, you do indeed live this way. You're largely certain that when
you wake up, you'll be in your house. You're largely certain that your family will still be there.
You're largely certain that you'll still be employed, and so forth.

You make these conclusions on the basis of the presence empirical evidence in favor and the
absence of empirical evidence to the contrary.

That's how every person makes decisions about the things they think.

It's vaguely possible that matter is held together by little tiny leprechauns, but it's vastly more
likely that it's just chemical bonding as a result of valence attractions. To have faith in one,
lacking all evidence, rather than the other, having strong evidence, is poorly justified 'belief.'

I try to espouse beliefs that are well justified. They may actually be wrong, but in the absence
of evidence to the contrary, it's foolish to believe a poorly justified belief.

You routinely dismiss the empirical evidence of science as if it is all blind faith. But it is not.
We do have empirical evidence for things and they point strongly in one direction rather than
another.

In order to make a case against evolution, it is not sufficient for you to say that there are an
infinite number of infinitesimally improbable alternatives. You must give compelling reasons to
accept an alternative as preferable. Otherwise, what you're simply advocating is the embracing
of the irrational, which is antithetical to science.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Here's your problem, KellyJay. I believe that we can be 'largely certain,' or have a 'vague sense of
certainty' on given issues.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, you do indeed live this way. You're largely certain that when
you wake up, you'll be in your house. You're largely certain that your family will still be there.
You're largely certain the embracing
of the irrational, which is antithetical to science.

Nemesio

Yes, I am a creature of faith and I live such a way that I act on things
I cannot know for sure, such as starting my car each day, walking on
the earth, trusting this, that, and the other thing to act as it always
has in the past. The reasons I dismiss many of the beliefs
surrounding evolution are not little things, they are quite large in my
opinion, and they are reasons I cannot support with the things I see
in the daily course of events, I have been told they are true, but that
is as far as they can go.
Kelly

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Last time I checked, I had freedom to express myself (as does KJ), and I don't believe we have to conform to a specific categorization to do so. In short, KJ--you keep posting in answer to questions anywhere you bloody feel like it. I know I will. And ya know what? I don't care WHAT forum I'm in. 😛

And now I will repeat myself:
"Why do you want to discuss in Science Forum, KJ? This is not the place for you, Spiritual Forum is."

Of course he can express himself freely, but if he does so in the right Forum it would be far better.
And, of course, I have also *my* right to express whatever I feel like.
And you too, PF.

But don't you agree that we should chose a Forum for what we write? No sports in Spiritual Forum, and no religious preaching in the Science Forum, sounds fair, doesn't it?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
And now I will repeat myself:
"Why do you want to discuss in Science Forum, KJ? This is not the place for you, Spiritual Forum is."

Of course he can express himself freely, but if he does so in the right Forum it would be far better.
And, of course, I have also *my* right to express whatever I feel like.
And you too, PF.

But don't you agree that ...[text shortened]... n Spiritual Forum, and no religious preaching in the Science Forum, sounds fair, doesn't it?

I'll repeat myself to you, I don't care what you like or don't like with
respect to my posting.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'll repeat myself to you, I don't care what you like or don't like with
respect to my posting.
Kelly

Your 'not caring' is not an answer, KJ. You are not interested in Science, yet you looove to be in this Science Forum, proving that you don't know much.

You have more respect in the Spiritual Forum, don't you see?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Your 'not caring' is not an answer, KJ. You are not interested in Science, yet you looove to be in this Science Forum, proving that you don't know much.

You have more respect in the Spiritual Forum, don't you see?

I'm not here for your respect as I have pointed out to you, I do not
care one wit if you like or dislike my posting, I'm not here to please
you, or be pleased by you. I'm not here to judge you and tell you
where you can or where you cannot post either, and frankly I’m getting
sick and tired of you posting after me claiming I don't belong here.
If you continue I'm going to start complaining about it.

I do not start discussions about my faith here, this isn't the place
for it. I will not back down or shy away from answering questions or
points that get brought up about my faith either here, or anywhere
else. So if you don't want to see me talking about my faith, you
should start reading those posts I end up responding too that brought
up the subject and quit pestering me about it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm not here for your respect as I have pointed out to you, I do not
care one wit if you like or dislike my posting, I'm not here to please
you, or be pleased by you. I'm not here to judge you and tell you
where you can or where you cannot post either, and frankly I’m getting
sick and tired of you posting after me claiming I don't belong here.
If you c ...[text shortened]... end up responding too that brought
up the subject and quit pestering me about it.
Kelly

You constantly return to your faith, KJ, and your faith doesn't belong here. It belong in the Spiritual Forum. You're not an expert of Science, but your're an expert of faith. And in the Spiritual Forum noone can attack you for having faith, noone, because in Spiritual Forum we can all discuss faith.

In the Spiritual Forum, I think, you get more respect than here. So what I say is - don't bring spiritual matters into the Science Forum, bring it into the Spiritual Forum where it belongs.

We have a great conversation going, you and me, in the Spiritual Forum, discussing the relationship between god and the first particle of Universe. There can even I bring in Spiritual matters, non-science matters. Mutual respect, with mutual benefits.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You constantly return to your faith, KJ, and your faith doesn't belong here. It belong in the Spiritual Forum. You're not an expert of Science, but your're an expert of faith. And in the Spiritual Forum noone can attack you for having faith, noone, because in Spiritual Forum we can all discuss faith.

In the Spiritual Forum, I think, you get more respec ...[text shortened]... ven I bring in Spiritual matters, non-science matters. Mutual respect, with mutual benefits.

I understand we are having a good conversation there; however, here
not so much. I dislike at every hint of any word that talks about faith
you try to shut me down. I want it to stop.
Kelly

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You constantly return to your faith, KJ, and your faith doesn't belong here. It belong in the Spiritual Forum. You're not an expert of Science, but your're an expert of faith. And in the Spiritual Forum noone can attack you for having faith, noone, because in Spiritual Forum we can all discuss faith.

In the Spiritual Forum, I think, you get more respec ...[text shortened]... ven I bring in Spiritual matters, non-science matters. Mutual respect, with mutual benefits.

In this thread we were not even talking about God or religion and
you are crying about it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I understand we are having a good conversation there; however, here
not so much. I dislike at every hint of any word that talks about faith
you try to shut me down. I want it to stop.
Kelly

Let's talk faith in the Spiritual Forum. You and me. Perhaps there we can learn much from eachother.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Let's talk faith in the Spiritual Forum. You and me. Perhaps there we can learn much from eachother.

I don't have an issue one with that; however, again stop telling me
where I can post and I cannot.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
In this thread we were not even talking about God or religion and
you are crying about it.
Kelly

I do not attempt to promote my stances here by bringing
in scripture, yet you are willing bring my faith/religion into this
discussion for the very reason to question my motives.

Those are your words. You don't have to quote script to imply what you really mean. Your motive is clear. How many of the links we provided did you actually read? That goes to your lack of real interest in science.