07 Feb 14
Originally posted by humyThat's all well and good. But suppose they actually survive? And/or thrive? Now, it would be their GOD watching over them.
since I strongly suspect that going to Mars any time soon would be an idiotic one way virtually suicidal trip, for now, I would prefer religious nuts being sent there to any rational people. Fortunately, truly rational people will not want to go there until technology greatly improves to make it safe and reasonable to go there in perhaps ~100 years time. In the ...[text shortened]... nyone sent there as someone that needs rescuing thus making sending people there idiotic indeed.
07 Feb 14
3 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseGood point. We wouldn't want the stupidity of religion to spread to other parts of the universe as it is bad enough having it here.
That's all well and good. But suppose they actually survive? And/or thrive? Now, it would be their GOD watching over them.
If religion takes hold on Mars, there could eventually be a war there with religious nuts causing atrocities and mass murder just like they did in WW2 with all those christian Nazi leaders.
I think it is really important then to send nobody to Mars until humanity is really ready in perhaps ~100 years time.
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08 Feb 14
2 edits
Originally posted by humy"Good point. We wouldn't want the stupidity of religion to spread to other parts of the universe as it is bad enough having it here. "
Good point. We wouldn't want the stupidity of religion to spread to other parts of the universe as it is bad enough having it here.
If religion takes hold on Mars, there could eventually be a war there with religious nuts causing atrocities and mass murder just like they did in WW2 with all those christian Nazi leaders.
I think it is really important then to send nobody to Mars until humanity is really ready in perhaps ~100 years time.
If I were to guess about whether religion is common in the universe I would say it is just as common as are beings of the general level of intelligence we have shown since the Upper Paleolithic or earlier, up till today, and I don't see anything that will change our general level of intelligence significantly WRT religion in the future.
08 Feb 14
7 edits
Originally posted by JS357Religion is evidently a result of a faulty belief-forming process in the human brain that results in delusional beliefs not rationally based on logic nor evidence but irrationally based on what one would emotionally desire to be true.
"Good point. We wouldn't want the stupidity of religion to spread to other parts of the universe as it is bad enough having it here. "
If I were to guess about whether religion is common in the universe I would say it is just as common as are beings of the general level of intelligence we have shown since the Upper Paleolithic or earlier, up till today, and ...[text shortened]... ng that will change our general level of intelligence significantly WRT religion in the future.
As far as I am aware, no other species of animal has this characteristic thus this appears to be a uniquely human characteristic that is a side effect of uniquely human evolution which has no survival benefit itself.
In a very subtle way, it may be a side effect of other characteristics that do give survival benefit thus explaining how it evolved despite giving no survival benefit itself -just like the appreciation of music evolved as a side effect of intelligence despite giving no survival benefit itself except that would arguably be a slightly unfair comparison because, while the appreciation of music is clearly harmless, delusional beliefs and religion is clearly harmful.
Therefore, I think it highly improbable that an intelligent alien species would independently evolve to have the same kind of faulty belief-forming process that results in delusional beliefs and therefore allows the existence of religion else that would be an an astonishingly unlikely coincidence.
I bet any intelligent and technological advanced alien species would most likely view religion in our species as something extremely weird and freaky and an indication that we are all dangerously totally insane and perhaps should be killed on sight because of it and it meaning that humans are certainly not to be trusted!
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08 Feb 14
Originally posted by humy"Therefore, I think it highly improbable that an intelligent alien species would independently evolve to have the same kind of [faulty] belief-forming process that results in [delusional] beliefs and therefore allows the existence of religion else that would be an an astonishingly unlikely coincidence. "
Religion is evidently a result of a faulty belief-forming process in the human brain that results in delusional beliefs not rationally based on logic nor evidence but irrationally based on what one would emotionally desire to be true.
As far as I am aware, no other species of animal has this characteristic thus this appears to be a uniquely human cha ...[text shortened]... uld be killed on sight because of it and it meaning that humans are certainly not to be trusted!
Facing the fact that it has happened here, to think it highly improbable elsewhere (given a species as intelligent as ours) seems to me to be unwarranted.
08 Feb 14
4 edits
Originally posted by JS357No! That is not a correct inference because that exact evolutionary outcome may be highly unlikely to turn out exactly the way it did!
"Therefore, I think it highly improbable that an intelligent alien species would independently evolve to have the same kind of [faulty] belief-forming process that results in [delusional] beliefs and therefore allows the existence of religion else that would be an an astonishingly unlikely coincidence. "
Facing the fact that it has happened here, to think i ...[text shortened]... hly improbable elsewhere (given a species as intelligent as ours) seems to me to be unwarranted.
If, for example, the evolution of humanity happened just slightly differently from the way it exactly did, for all we know, there may then not be any religion and everyone would then be atheist (by default ) and having absolutely no concept of 'god'! (in fact, the words "atheist" and "theists" wouldn't ever have been invented and, if you talked about religion, nobody would know what you are talking about! )
So it is not "unwarranted" to think it be highly improbable to happen (or to have happened ) again but to an alien species!
A better way to judge the probability of an evolutionary outcome to be 'high' is to see if a number of relatively unrelated species on Earth independently evolved to have that exact same characteristic because that would then be a big coincidence if that had a low probably thus indicating a high probability.
Conversely, if only one species on Earth evolved to have a particular characteristic (such as humans having religion ) then that would indicate that is was a highly improbable evolutionary outcome.
09 Feb 14
If I were younger and there was a plan to colonize or be stationed say like in a space station orbiting Mars and I was qualified I might want to go. Concerns however about exposure to radiation and many other potential hazards would have to be strongly considered. I also would want the chance to be able to have a trip back to Earth to visit. Of course that could take up to 2+ years to get there.
Manny
09 Feb 14
Originally posted by menace71As it stands now, the radiation issue will likely kill all the passengers before they ever get there.
If I were younger and there was a plan to colonize or be stationed say like in a space station orbiting Mars and I was qualified I might want to go. Concerns however about exposure to radiation and many other potential hazards would have to be strongly considered. I also would want the chance to be able to have a trip back to Earth to visit. Of course that could take up to 2+ years to get there.
Manny
The only way out of that situation is to develop fully the Vasimir ion rocket technology, if they can get a steady 0.05g they can get to Mars in a month instead of 6 or 8, which reduces the chances of running into a solar storm.
10 Feb 14
Originally posted by menace71It would not much matter, if you add mass to the ship it lowers the ultimate velocity and increases the time of flight. The only practical way is to have nuclear powered Vasimir type ion propulsion that can get you there in a month which minimizes the radiation. If you get hit with a blast, you are through it that much faster. If you had been going as Mars rockets do now, you could be stuck in a radiation blast for a week or more before you ride through it.
Would some type of shielding help against radiation ? of course that would increase the weight of the ship but to offset this the ship could be built in space.
Manny
Speed is the only way.
14 Feb 14
Originally posted by JS357I agree. It seems to me entirely probable that intelligent life on another planet would have a form of religion. If there is a correct religious belief then we must also assume that it is shared by some (though maybe not all) of our new alien friends. So then can we not agree that this will enable us to finally arbitrate in a definitive way between Catholics and Protestants? We can all go with the side that finds an alien supporter. Of course, if both sides have an alien supporter that might make this exercise more difficult. Maybe it will spark another 30 Years War until we achieve an Intergalactic Treaty of Westphalia!
"Therefore, I think it highly improbable that an intelligent alien species would independently evolve to have the same kind of [faulty] belief-forming process that results in [delusional] beliefs and therefore allows the existence of religion else that would be an an astonishingly unlikely coincidence. "
Facing the fact that it has happened here, to think i ...[text shortened]... hly improbable elsewhere (given a species as intelligent as ours) seems to me to be unwarranted.
14 Feb 14
8 edits
Originally posted by finneganAre you just joking here?
I agree. It seems to me entirely probable that intelligent life on another planet would have a form of religion. If there is a correct religious belief then we must also assume that it is shared by some (though maybe not all) of our new alien friends. So then can we not agree that this will enable us to finally arbitrate in a definitive way between Catholic ...[text shortened]... Maybe it will spark another 30 Years War until we achieve an Intergalactic Treaty of Westphalia!
If there is a correct religious belief then ….
LOL. To say that is a huge “If” is an understatement! That is just like saying “If there is a correct delusional belief then...”.
There is clearly not such thing as a “correct” religious belief because religious belief is not based rationally on evidence nor logic.
A 'correct' belief can only be one based purely on evidence and flawless logic and not what one would want to be true.
So then can we not agree that this will enable us to finally arbitrate in a definitive way between Catholics and Protestants?
Why would a “correct” religious belief be either Catholicism and Protestantism and not, say, Hinduism?
And would do you really believe that, if there are aliens, some would be Catholics and/or Protestants!
Like all religions, these human religions are just made up by humans and no other species.
The human species is the only one we know of capable of such extreme delusions and, if there are aliens, there is no special reason to think they could have the same extreme delusions or even be capable of such a thing in particular.
For all we know, if there are aliens, none have anything like religion or anything like that sort of delusion nor capable of that and, if they got to know us, they would think humanity is totally insane and religion is an extremely disturbing scary symptom of that insanity and think we are sick as a species! They may even have pity on us and try and genetically modify us and then educate us to cure our insanity we call religion -or they may think we are beyond help and kill us as an act of mercy like we would kill a rabid dog as an act of mercy.
15 Feb 14
Originally posted by sonhouseI understand to that there are optimal times to actually make a mission to Mars when the earth and Mars are at certain points.
It would not much matter, if you add mass to the ship it lowers the ultimate velocity and increases the time of flight. The only practical way is to have nuclear powered Vasimir type ion propulsion that can get you there in a month which minimizes the radiation. If you get hit with a blast, you are through it that much faster. If you had been going as Mars ...[text shortened]... k in a radiation blast for a week or more before you ride through it.
Speed is the only way.
Manny
15 Feb 14
Originally posted by menace71That is true for our present orbital mechanics kind of travel but with 1 g of constant accel or even 1/20th g you go beyond regular flight and just aim straight at your subject.
I understand to that there are optimal times to actually make a mission to Mars when the earth and Mars are at certain points.
Manny
The trick is to get there with zero relative velocity to the subject planet and you do that by accelerating half way then turn around the propulsion and decelerate the rest of the way and you get there a LOT faster than regular rockets and end up with zero relative velocity with respect to the target planet.