03 Apr 08
Originally posted by thorvoPerfect for what? If you mean 'perfect for life' then it isn't.
Why is the earth not placed perfectly around the sun?
What things happen by chance?
Everything.
I am talking about the Big Bang explosion.
You said:
"if I am not wrong, the explosion sent TONS of gases and particles flying out,"
You were wrong. The Big Bang was not an explosion and didn't send tons of gases and particles flying out.
You clearly know very little about what you are talking about. Why don't you do some research on it - wikkipedia would be a good place to start. Avoid Creationist websites.
Otherwise you could ask questions on this forum - if you want to learn some science, I and others on this site would be glad to assist.
03 Apr 08
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasNature has not done that. When has it done that?
[b]"You cant just put several atoms of this and some molecules of that and BINGO have somethign living."
Why not? Nature did just that.
"If it were the case that atoms and molecules were alive, then is metal alive?"
I haven't said that. Please, don't read things that is not written.
"Ok, true, evolution isn't really in the religi per se in the Science Forum. Religious matters I discuss in Spirituality Forum.
no, you didnt say exactly in those words. But metal is a bunch of atoms. You just said atoms are alive. besides, I was asking it to know your opinion too.
What laws of nature are broken by someone walking on water, turning water into wine? Those may be done with supernatural power, but what laws are broken?
Ok fine. But since some people think Science and religion dont go together it might not be accepted in the Spirituality Forum either.
03 Apr 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadPerfect, no not anymore. That is cause of man's sin that the earth and life isn't perfect. But there is still a lot about earth that show design and a Designer.
Perfect for what? If you mean 'perfect for life' then it isn't.
[b]What things happen by chance?
Everything.
I am talking about the Big Bang explosion.
You said:
"if I am not wrong, the explosion sent TONS of gases and particles flying out,"
You were wrong. The Big Bang was not an explosion and didn't send tons of gases and particles ...[text shortened]... m - if you want to learn some science, I and others on this site would be glad to assist.[/b]
Really? Do you really believe that by chance there are plants living on the earth, humans, animals, whose bodies are designed incredibly well to fight disease, to survive, adn reproduce? Come on, its illogical! If you look at the great design, uniqueness, variety, etc, it doesnt show it all happened by chance. It was designed and made by someone. The chance idea is just something for those who dont want to believe in God but it has no sound reasoning. It's as if waiting for a piece of styrofoam to turn into an airplane and start flying around without crashing into other things, all on its own.
I looked it up in Wikipedia, and it tells it as an expansion. Earlier years when I was in school I was taught it was an explosion adn that out of that planets and stars formed. Ive heard from a lot of people and from teachers who say it was an explosion. I guess the truth is hard to find these days, uh? I guess I am wrong about the explosion, so I will call it expansion. I forget where I left off with that, though. Let me say another thing. Even if the Big Bang theory is true, God still exists. St. Thomas Aquinas listed the presence of motion as one of his five arguments for the existence of God. He said that in all of our experience, humans have found that motion cannot occur without a mover. Thus, any observable motion should be traceable back to the original mover. For the universe to be expanding, something must have prompted the expansion. Even if the Big Bang theory is true, God still exists.
03 Apr 08
Originally posted by thorvoI disagree. But I will ask you a question.
Perfect, no not anymore. That is cause of man's sin that the earth and life isn't perfect. But there is still a lot about earth that show design and a Designer.
Really? Do you really believe that by chance there are plants living on the earth, humans, animals, whose bodies are designed incredibly well to fight disease, to survive, adn reproduce? Come on, i ...[text shortened]... hing must have prompted the expansion. Even if the Big Bang theory is true, God still exists.
Do you believe in a God that is omnipotent (can do anything), omniscient (knows everything) and omnibenevolent (loves everyone)?
03 Apr 08
Originally posted by thorvoThis is a common misunderstanding. The theory of evolution does not predict large changes over small amounts of time. It predicts small changes over large amounts of time.
It's as if waiting for a piece of styrofoam to turn into an airplane and start flying around without crashing into other things, all on its own.
03 Apr 08
Originally posted by thorvo"Nature has not done that. When has it done that?"
Nature has not done that. When has it done that?
no, you didnt say exactly in those words. But metal is a bunch of atoms. You just said atoms are alive. besides, I was asking it to know your opinion too.
What laws of nature are broken by someone walking on water, turning water into wine? Those may be done with supernatural power, but what laws are broke ...[text shortened]... Science and religion dont go together it might not be accepted in the Spirituality Forum either.
Life started by nature on earth by primitive bacteria 3850 millon of years ago. I don't hope you bend words here, you know what I mean with 'nature'.
"no, you didnt say exactly in those words. But metal is a bunch of atoms. You just said atoms are alive. besides, I was asking it to know your opinion too."
Let me quote myself:
"Life is not more than atoms and molecules, nothing more. There is no essence of life in living matter, that's religious talk."
I didn't say that in all atoms there is life, I didn't say that atoms in themself carried life. When atoms are assempled in a specific order, then life is created. We don't have the technology to do that (perhaps I am wrong, the DNA from a virus has once been created artificially, and it worked as it was a natural virus, but I'm not sure of it), but it can be done, nature did it. (Am I repeating myself?)
"What laws of nature are broken by someone (a) walking on water, (b) turning water into wine? Those may be done with supernatural power, but what laws are broken?"
(a) Gravity for one. (b) There are ingridiences in wine that is not in water, like carbon atoms, you can't turn H2O into carbon. Supernatural things is not within natural laws, and not in any science. The experiment on walking on water surface can't be repeated scientificly.
You can't treat religion scientifically using scientific methods. It has been tried and it never works. Religion is one thing and science is another thing. If you mix them (using prayers to make an experiment work, or using science to levitate as gravitation was not there) it is going to fail.
As you say, science cannot be treated in Spirituality and religion cannot be treated in Science, then move the Religion/Science debates to Debate Forum, were everything can be debated.
03 Apr 08
Originally posted by thorvoIf god designed us, why did he do it so badly. Our lungs are inefficient, bird lungs are far superior. Our eyes are poorly "designed" too, there is no reason for the brain to have to reverse the image except the process that the eye evolved by started out upside down. Our Immune systems have horrible inefficiencies, the list goes on and on.......
Perfect, no not anymore. That is cause of man's sin that the earth and life isn't perfect. But there is still a lot about earth that show design and a Designer.
Really? Do you really believe that by chance there are plants living on the earth, humans, animals, whose bodies are designed incredibly well to fight disease, to survive, adn reproduce? Come on, i ...[text shortened]... hing must have prompted the expansion. Even if the Big Bang theory is true, God still exists.
The bottom line is you need a god to validate you existence, the idea that its all random chance from chaos scares you, the idea that you are actually irrelevant scares you.... so you fabricate flying spaghetti monsters to make yourself feel important and believe that you've got a higher purpose than just existing.
I've been following this thread with great interest, although its a little over my head to contribute I'm enjoying the discussion so pleas don't let it get turned into so ridiculous ID argument.
Take it to spirituality spanky
03 Apr 08
1 edit
Originally posted by MexicoHow are our lungs inefficient? and how are birds lungs superior? ever taken into account different lungs were made for different purposes, depending on the animal and its habitat? a fishes lungs are different than human's, but that doesnt mean they are better. Our eyes, i dont know why the brain has to reverse the image, but that doesnt mean there is no reason for that. someone else, i dont know if it was in this forum or in another, said somthing about the nerve that runs through the lens of the eye, creating a blind spot. but then someone else showed how it was actually better that it ran through the eye lens, and not behind it. our immune system may have problems, but a lot of that depends on diet. good food keeps the body healthy, junk food, forget it. the body cant function on bad food. in our eye, the lens becomes thin or thicker to adjust focus. in a camera, there are TWO lens that have to move back and forth to adjust focus. the eye's lens is much better. if there are any other problems with out body, its because of mans sin, not because God didn't create it properly.
If god designed us, why did he do it so badly. Our lungs are inefficient, bird lungs are far superior. Our eyes are poorly "designed" too, there is no reason for the brain to have to reverse the image except the process that the eye evolved by started out upside down. Our Immune systems have horrible inefficiencies, the list goes on and on.......
The botto don't let it get turned into so ridiculous ID argument.
Take it to spirituality spanky
teh idea that we are all chance is ridiculous and ilogical. what scares you is that there is a God and you are responsible to him, so u prefer to believe some made up nonsense about how u are made by chance. You are scared of there being a God and having to obey him and answer to him.
03 Apr 08
Originally posted by PBE6oh and the changes will turn out just right? like the earth spinning around the sun and not shooting off into space, or being the exact distance from the sun, or there being such a variety between animals and plants, or their being two genders, etc. let me ask this. have scientists found any intermediate links? no
This is a common misunderstanding. The theory of evolution does not predict large changes over small amounts of time. It predicts small changes over large amounts of time.
03 Apr 08
Originally posted by PBE6How can you disagree? a car wont move without a force acting upon it. something cant begin flying without a force acting upon it either. how can u disagree with somethign liek that that has been proven? if the universe did expand, somethign had to started it. who do u think that was?
I disagree. But I will ask you a question.
Do you believe in a God that is omnipotent (can do anything), omniscient (knows everything) and omnibenevolent (loves everyone)?
yes I do believe in a God like that.
04 Apr 08
This thread is in the Science forum and has been alerted because of significant non-scientific content. Those persons without scientific knowledge, or who wish to make unattributed quotes from other persons, should confine themselves to reading contributions to the debate. If they wish to communicate with posters in the thread, it should be done either by private message or in the Spirituality forum. Any recurrence of non-scientific postings after this point will be deleted.
04 Apr 08
Originally posted by thorvoThe structure of the parabronchial lung is entirely different. Here, gas flow is unidirectional along the parabronchi, the reliance on gas diffusion to reach the blood capillaries is much less, and there is no necessity for the relatively large alveolar spaces of the mammalian lung. The air capillaries and the blood capillaries have approximately the same dimensions. The structure of the parabronchial tissue is therefore much more robust and rigid.
How are our lungs inefficient? and how are birds lungs superior? ever taken into account different lungs were made for different purposes, depending on the animal and its habitat? a fishes lungs are different than human's, but that doesnt mean they are better. Our eyes, i dont know why the brain has to reverse the image, but that doesnt mean there is no reaso ...[text shortened]... made by chance. You are scared of there being a God and having to obey him and answer to him.
Thats from an paper, can't find an appropriate ref sorry.
Why don't you know the reason behind the human eye being inverted?
simple answer is there is no reason, it evolved that way.
so the sins of my forefathers have resulted in a dodgy body that I had no choice in? Cruel god you have.
The earth is 6.5 billion years old, thats a long long time for a lot of random occurrence, it illogical to believe your a unique and pretty little flower that's special in a universe so vast and timeless, despite what mommy told you. your not unique or special.
If there is a god and Im stood before him and told I'm answerable for my disbelief. Then to be honest I'd probably laugh and walk away from such a callous and cruel being. I'd rather burn than spend eternity under the love of a being who leaves little evidence of his/her/it's existence then punishes those who think for themselves and aren't blindly obedient. We were given our brain are we expected not to use it?
I've answered your questions, ill post some reference links to make the point if your actually interested. However you don't appear to have any form of scientific grounding so unless you wish to contribute to the discussion please refrain from peddling your nonsense here, take it to spirituality.
06 Apr 08
Originally posted by serigadoThere is some evidence that the origin of life is basically extraterrestrial from early meteorite impacts.I truly believe this to be the case.Some forms of life,DNA a viruse and more can survive for perhaps thousands or millions of years in deep freeze space or deep within a meteor from a world that has disintigrated and began floating through space to later find a gravitational pull from a world that luckily,like the earth had an atmosphere forming.I truly believe,laugh or not,that we are all aliens to this world that over millions of years slowly grew to human beings afer a very slow molecular evolution originally formed from the meteor impacts,possibly from another galaxy!
please, don't come up with theological theories.
All life that ever existed on earth seems to be RNA-DNA based. This definitely evidences an original life from which all life forms evolved.
But imagining earth back then, I would say many different kinds of complex molecules aggregations could form. Why did only nucleic acid based ones survive?
If we ...[text shortened]... ilding blocks wouldn't be C,N,O,H based.
Or CNOH based, but using very different mechanisms.
06 Apr 08
Originally posted by ChainsawAlthough a nice idea the Panspermia theory has lost much popularity over the last few decades, mainly because its becoming clearer that Abiogenesis is a feasible and re creatable phenomena. Although because we are still incapable of creating life in a lab, panspermia is still a viable alternative. ockhams razor would tend to lend its self to terrestrial Abiogenisis.
There is some evidence that the origin of life is basically extraterrestrial from early meteorite impacts.I truly believe this to be the case.Some forms of life,DNA a viruse and more can survive for perhaps thousands or millions of years in deep freeze space or deep within a meteor from a world that has disintigrated and began floating through space to late ...[text shortened]... slow molecular evolution originally formed from the meteor impacts,possibly from another galaxy!
07 Apr 08
Originally posted by thorvoQuit being thick. You know evolution explains the complexity of life and not the position of the earth in the solar system.
oh and the changes will turn out just right? like the earth spinning around the sun and not shooting off into space, or being the exact distance from the sun, or there being such a variety between animals and plants, or their being two genders, etc. let me ask this. have scientists found any intermediate links? no
I disagreed with your false analogy, that life is so complex that it must need a designer in the same way a watch must have been designed by a watchmaker. If that were true, then by a similar analogy we both have 2 arms, 2 legs, a head, 2 hands with 4 fingers and a thumb on each, eyes, a heart, lungs, a rectum, etc... and therefore we must have come from the same mother.
If we did, she dropped you on your head.