@KellyJay
I guess you don't believe in General or special relativity. Time dilation is a fact, the faster you go, the closer to the speed of light you go, the slower time flows for you, I assume you have heard about the twin issue, one twin takes off on an interstellar journey, the other one stays home? So the astronaut spends 10 earth years in the ship going 99% of the speed of light and so that 100 light years he thinks took only a couple of years, everything in the ship is running on a slower clock. So say 2 years to get there, 5 years mucking about on the new planet, 2 years coming back, his clock says he spent 9 years on the journey, Earth folks tracking the ship (they have extraordinary tech🙂 say 205 years went by from our viewpoint so his twin died 150 years earlier, the world has changed so far he doesn't even BEGIN to understand the changes, he is alone in the world 200 years behind times. And he aged only 25 years or so. A REAL stranger in a strange land.
Can you imagine the reaction to a dude in century 18 being time warped to now? Light bulbs? Sewers? paved roads? Flying cars? People walking on the moon?
He would shrivel up and suck his thumb in the corner of his room.....
So you don't think that happens?
@sonhouse saidWe should be a little specific about our terms, I can say what time it is currently in my part of Texas but for the vast majority of people that will not be the time. Some will be head by an hour or behind, some hours but that will be true relative to where everyone is. The Earth is sliced up into time zones, and the moon spins but how it spins keeps the same side always facing us, do we assign time to the whole moon, and divide it up according to its rotation? As I said, we can do what we will, you want to bring in relativity, uh, okay, not where I was going.
@KellyJay
I guess you don't believe in General or special relativity. Time dilation is a fact, the faster you go, the closer to the speed of light you go, the slower time flows for you, I assume you have heard about the twin issue, one twin takes off on an interstellar journey, the other one stays home? So the astronaut spends 10 earth years in the ship going 99% of the spe ...[text shortened]... would shrivel up and suck his thumb in the corner of his room.....
So you don't think that happens?
@KellyJay
I am not the one originating the need for time on the moon, it is NASA wanting to be able to figure out to the picosecond what time it is on the moon so we can sync our data streams with Earth time. Do you not believe time flow can change depending on how close or far away you are from a mass, where time flows slower near a mass and faster away from that mass, and we are not talking about hours of difference, just nanoseconds differences which can be enough to throw off the sending of data.
That was one of my jobs during the Apollo years, Apollo timing.
Where because Earth spins, any given radio telescope inevitably loses contact with anything near the moon so to keep data flowing without interruption, we had 100 nanoseconds, one tenth of a microsecond to switch from one dish to another to keep data flowing unabated.
In order to do that, we have to know how time flows where an atomic clock is on Earth V some clock on or near the moon, which is a much smaller gravity field so an atomic clock on the moon would run at a faster rate than an exact duplicate of an atomic clock here on the surface of Earth.
Now we have advanced time flow recognition to such an extent, that is to say, our atomic clocks have become SO precise we can see actually measure the time flow of an atomic clock when it is moved up or down as little as one meter higher or lower, because of the direct change of time flow due to relativity and time dilation in different levels of the spacetime at a particular altitude.
THAT is why we need to establish time standards on the moon, not because we want time zones on the moon like we have on Earth.
I mentioned the time window we had to have back 50 years ago for Apollo and that time window gets smaller and smaller the more data you shove down a radio or laser signal, so if we had say 10 megabits per second, to keep data flowing we needed a time window of one tenth of a microsecond to keep up the data flow uninterrupted but now we are capable of sending out many times the data rate we had 50 years ago, so now the same mission with say a data stream of one gigabit per second would need syncing with the next dish or laser station, the time window would now be measured in picoseconds not microseconds so it is a lot more involved timewise when time flows slightly faster on the moon and we need to know Exactly how much different time flows there than here. That is the time 'zone' issue going on here and everywhere else on Earth with spacegoing nations, we are all in the same boat if we have data rates measured in gigabits per second.
@Pianoman1
You have plans for more tracks on SC? My latest one I call 'Raptor enjoying the clouds' a guitar solo, drop D tuning, on our 1968 Takamine classic, a really nice sounding guitar.
OMG, I just realized that guitar is 56 years old now! It certainly has aged well, very mellow sound out of that box!
@sonhouse saidI believe our ability to track timing over large differences in space isn't an easy thing, working with CPUs, we had to set up test signals with multiple inputs where picoseconds and millivolts were my world for about 20 years. Making sure when we send signals in our inputs, we can track them in the device under test, and then get output signals in return with predictable outcomes. Keeping the timing correct within the processors, and within the test equipment was difficult, and that was when it was all contained in one spot, looking at the moon, I can only imagine it is by far much harder.
@KellyJay
I am not the one originating the need for time on the moon, it is NASA wanting to be able to figure out to the picosecond what time it is on the moon so we can sync our data streams with Earth time. Do you not believe time flow can change depending on how close or far away you are from a mass, where time flows slower near a mass and faster away from that mass, and ...[text shortened]... acegoing nations, we are all in the same boat if we have data rates measured in gigabits per second.
@Pianoman1
Whenever I get confused about the time, I just go back to my old basic standard.
It's MILLER TIME.
Sorry, the devil made me do it.
I now return control of this thread back to you egg-heads! 🙂
@mwmiller said😆
@Pianoman1
Whenever I get confused about the time, I just go back to my old basic standard.
It's MILLER TIME.
Sorry, the devil made me do it.
I now return control of this thread back to you egg-heads! 🙂
@sonhouse saidIn-door plumbing with toilet paper, ohhh ahhhh!
@KellyJay
I guess you don't believe in General or special relativity. Time dilation is a fact, the faster you go, the closer to the speed of light you go, the slower time flows for you, I assume you have heard about the twin issue, one twin takes off on an interstellar journey, the other one stays home? So the astronaut spends 10 earth years in the ship going 99% of the spe ...[text shortened]... would shrivel up and suck his thumb in the corner of his room.....
So you don't think that happens?
And to think that was something people fought over eating and pooping in the same house. 🙂
@sonhouse saidAn aside question same topic, time, interested in your thoughts about this.
@Ponderable
It will be interesting whatever they come up with. Not sure why it matters much.
My job on Apollo was Tracking and timing, timing part, 2 atomic clocks and backup quartz clock to sync data transfer from scope to scope when Earth loses line of sight from one radio telescope to one that IS in line of sight, they had 100 microseconds to coordinate shifting data fr ...[text shortened]... flow differences from a clock at exact sea level and one a meter higher! Big Al was right for sure🙂
Believing in God as I do I think about time quite a bit, past, present, future.
A period of time can vary depending on the event in question, a train moving down the tracks could move 60 MPH with ten cars and an engine. If you are at the crossing the period would be when the train started passing in front of you and when it passed, the middle would be when half of it had passed.
So I'm thinking about the period "now" Its leading edge and its trailing edge occupy the same point, you cannot slice it up, it is unquantifiable. Our perception of some events many say time slows down to them. Given this conversation could it be what is going on is they are looking at events and seeing them closer to real time versus how we normally see them after the fact how is it close enough to think we are seeing it exactly as it happens?
This is just me pondering it.
@sonhouse saidWhy would you even go there, my question had nothing to do with time dilation due to mass or changes in the gravity field strength. I guess you are looking for some fault in me and are not paying attention to what I'm asking. Thank you for your time.
@KellyJay
If I understand you correctly you don't believe there is time dilation due to changes in mass or changes in gravity field strength?