@KellyJay
Well then, tell me what time means to you. I'm confused, at one point I think you don't accept Earth is 4 billion years old and stars even older then you say it's irrelevant and I am not sure what you mean by that.
I think you imply it doesn't matter because you are talking about the origins of life and you don't think it can happen naturally with no input from a god. Is that right?
@sonhouse saidI don’t think I have to repeat myself in saying age of the earth is a meaningless metric you can just assume I will accept any time you want. Therefore having your non stop attempts to get me to accept how you look at the earth is simply irrelevant and meaningless. My position is that the problem is not how we date the earth, but how the process brings about everything we see.
@KellyJay
Well then, tell me what time means to you. I'm confused, at one point I think you don't accept Earth is 4 billion years old and stars even older then you say it's irrelevant and I am not sure what you mean by that.
I think you imply it doesn't matter because you are talking about the origins of life and you don't think it can happen naturally with no input from a god. Is that right?
I am done repeating this to you as well!
@KellyJay
Ok, I have it. I can assume if science shows life can happen in nature without a deity, you would not except that result. If they say, put some mud and heat and chemicals together in such a way as a bacteria oozed out, you would say, see, life can be invented by actors of some kind and in your case that would be god.
Right now you are safe, as I said before, since no science experiment can take mud and energy and whatever and poop out a bacteria.
That may not be the case in another century.
Also life may be found on say Europa, deep in the 40 mile deep ocean, not by diving into it by by ramming the sprouting water with a probe and bringing the stuff back to Earth and of course that has not been done yet.
It would at least show life can develop when halfway decent conditions are there. I the oceans of Europa you wouldn't need our pesky stuff like sunlight or magnetic field to protect us from eruptions one the sun, the depth of the ocean would protect any newly minted life there.
I think finding life somewhere in our solar system besides Earth would suggest the origin tale of the bible to be false since it would at the very least suggest if a god did originate life, it could have done it by rigging the laws of physics in the creation of our universe to be favorable for the formation of life.
That is another area of religion science could probably not falsify and that would go out of the bounds of science unless we figured out our universe completely and then found we are in fact in a multiverse where our universe is just one of a possible infinite number of universes and those universes could have slightly different laws of physics, like say gravity being stronger and not allowing any kind of life to go beyond being a bacteria because it can't become very three dimensional if gravity on a planet was say 100 times OUR gravity, where the escape velocity would be not 7 miles per second but 700 miles per second and a one ounce mouse say would clock in at 6 pounds and not sure if biology could evolve to such an extent it could grow much past a rabbit size, say a 5 pound rabbit would now weigh 500 pounds and the legs would have to support 125 pounds each to be able to stand up.
Just one example of how laws of physics could be different in different universe which would mean in the far future when mankind somehow figures it all out they would then see our universe as having laws of physics specifically to allow life to form, and that could posit a god made our universe for a purpose, to allow life. My little thesis is our universe is a god grade school project and our universe would be judged by the teachers on how well life was able to live with the stresses of being in a hostile environment and only special conditions would allow life, like I said, for our planet to have gravity not much more than the 1 G we feel so a 100 pound animal needs only to support 100 pounds which we clearly can do, and a nice magnetic field which protects us from solar storms which as we see on Mars, not much in the way of magnetic fields there and the solar storms stripped away what atmosphere it had 3 billion years ago when they think there was enough atmospheric pressure to allow liquid water and when the atmosphere went bye bye the water would have to seep underground to still exist as water, even if bound in minerals because the atmosphere went south, lost significant pressure where liquid water would quickly evaporate unless it was in the form of ice. So Mars lost out in the long term survival for life even if it had life there a couple billion years ago. Too bad but we might fix that in a few more centuries so humans can walk around unaided by such pesky details as space suits and such and oceans of water.
Another idea in the generation of life is Panspermia, where a cloud of organic material from some exploding star sent that nebula of gasses into our solar system and spread prebiotic materials around all over the solar system and some of that stuff became comets which bombarded the early Earth with the stuff life could develop from. And of course that is conjecture right now and may be totally wrong proven by a far future Earthmen science figuring it all out and they may conclude god actually did it but I don't think it would be a man shaped god who is male and gest pissed and kills people and says man is worth 50 shekels and woman is worth 35 shekels. That is directly the result of men putting down women just like they do in Muslim countries like the present Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia where it was only in the past decade women were even allowed to drive and if she is raped and turns it in to the cop, SHE is blamed and maybe stoned to death because she can't find three MALE witnesses, female witnesses need not apply.
But a god who made our universe to be favorable for life at least under conditions anywhere like Earth or maybe the deep oceans of Europa.
Wouldn't it be a blast if they proved that is how it all happened and we start communicating directly with such a deity?
@sonhouse saidYou can assume anything you like, are your assumptions backed up by what we see naturally occurring without interference? You can see that to build something that is going to be functionally complex a plan is required, that material is required, and until the material is there nothing is going to occur, once the material is on hand putting things together in the proper order, using the appropriate amount of force needs to be applied at the right time as everything is put together, and if once that is doing intelligence is required to code it to function properly you have just done something that random chance and necessity couldn't do with endless times available.
@KellyJay
Ok, I have it. I can assume if science shows life can happen in nature without a deity, you would not except that result. If they say, put some mud and heat and chemicals together in such a way as a bacteria oozed out, you would say, see, life can be invented by actors of some kind and in your case that would be god.
Right now you are safe, as I said before, sinc ...[text shortened]... st if they proved that is how it all happened and we start communicating directly with such a deity?
@sonhouse
I just found this on phys.org, a different way to measure old settlements using cosmic rays, have no idea how that works but they claim accurate measurement of the age of this settlement at around 7000 years ago.
https://phys.org/news/2024-05-succeed-accurately-dating-year-prehistoric.html