Originally posted by padgergo to a restaurant get served cold disgusting food
If I do not understand what any of this means
How will I know if Robbie has got his hands in my back pocket like he did last year
He calls it manipulating the system I call it cheating
Also how will this affect Lemondrop who throws games at the drop of a hat
As I understand it so far all he has to do is win three challenges and he is the champion
Please ...[text shortened]... in this better
What is clan rating for a start and how does that affect your personal rating ?
what do you do?
set up a complicated system amoung the other customers? so it does not happen again?
no you get the manager get a new meal or refund
in this case the manager [russ] is asking for advice,
any idea from anyone is shot down by robbie who wants his way or no way.sorry but we can't hand the future of the site over to a "protester" i used the protester word rather than what he really is but you can guess what i mean.
to me collusion was so obvious in 2016 points have to be removed, it has happened before in a much lesser scale so it has to happen now.its the only way we can get the bitter taste out and restore some integrity.
i agree with you i don't understand how a clan can have a rating, higher rated clan wins? so 2000 rated players could start a clan and be champs straight off? makes no sense.
points removal and banning dead players is a good option, both robbie is against, i wonder why?
I come to this as a newbie in the murky world of underhand clan dealings. Being a one man band I don't quite frankly give a damn. (page two and proud) Although I do have to confess to helping McTayto once in gaming the system which as I recall led to a change of the rules.
I do however think it would be very helpful if people put history aside. Old animosities vented in public don't get us any nearer to a solution.
Collusion/dumping games seems to me no more than gaming the system that's in place. Think diving in soccer. Cheating to some, acceptable practise to others. Depending on whether it's your side does the diving mainly.
We all agree it's broke, let's fix it.
Two bob's worth: Make every game count in a challenge with a small winning bonus dependent on how much the clan wins by.
Originally posted by The Postmanprobably the most honest post on here
I come to this as a newbie in the murky world of underhand clan dealings. Being a one man band I don't quite frankly give a damn. (page two and proud) Although I do have to confess to helping McTayto once in gaming the system which as I recall led to a change of the rules.
I do however think it would be very helpful if people put history aside. Old ani ...[text shortened]... ery game count in a challenge with a small winning bonus dependent on how much the clan wins by.
mctayto never plays by the sportsmanship rules it seems.
good comparison to football or soccer as you call it, but refs are booking players for diving, well some of the time. its too inconsistent that what is happened here.
collusion has been punished in the past with some clans having points removed while others suspended for ever. the large scale collusion/protest in 2016 must have some consequences for those involved, it will act as a warning to others trying to do the same thing in the future.
points system needs changing no way a clan should have negative points, in tournament play its 3 for a win 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss, not =3 for a loss like the clan points.
say 10 v 10 winning clan gets 20 points, losing clan gets 0, plus each team gets a bonus of 1 point per win, 0 for a draw. i think this is fair but it will get shot down in flames
must close the dead player loop hole, if a player is away, not on vacation, the player cant be selected until they move in a game, plus any player who never moves in a game, the game will not count in the points awarded.
do you understand what a clan rating is and how it would stop collusion i do not have a clue.
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09 Jan 17
Originally posted by roma45Salient points Roma.
probably the most honest post on here
mctayto never plays by the sportsmanship rules it seems.
good comparison to football or soccer as you call it, but refs are booking players for diving, well some of the time. its too inconsistent that what is happened here.
collusion has been punished in the past with some clans having points removed while others s ...[text shortened]... you understand what a clan rating is and how it would stop collusion i do not have a clue.
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The points deduction (for what might have a been a tightly fought clan contest not necessarily reflected in the win/lose ratio) is too onerous methinks. It encourages winning by fair means or foul. Less incentive would go a long way.
To take the soccer analogy further; when they started issuing red cards for a denying what was deemed a goal scoring opportunity (professional foul) defenders behaviour changed rapidly.
Instead of the blame game let's take this opportunity to evolve the whole Redhotpawn site.
My credit card company phoned me once to see if I'd actually subscribed to what they believed was something entirely different. "It's a chess site honest" I said.
A bye the bye btw.
Originally posted by The Postmanfootballers who dive pull shirts pretend to be injured any thing to win are no doubt a disgrace, but the financial rewards are great.
Salient points Roma.
The points deduction (for what might have a been a tightly fought clan contest not necessarily reflected in the win/lose ratio) is too onerous methinks. It encourages winning by fair means or foul. Less incentive would go a long way.
To take the soccer analogy further; when they started issuing red cards for a denying what was deem ...[text shortened]... lieved was something entirely different. "It's a chess site honest" I said.
A bye the bye btw.
some clans will use collusion pick dead players use every loop hole in the "faulty system" as one boosts on his profile page.to win?
we are not highly paid pro chess players. i play on here for fun some want some sort of crusade really cant have much of a life
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09 Jan 17
Originally posted by roma45I'd surmise that we all started out on this site because of a love of chess. Competitive instincts have dulled that notion by all accounts.
footballers who dive pull shirts pretend to be injured any thing to win are no doubt a disgrace, but the financial rewards are great.
some clans will use collusion pick dead players use every loop hole in the "faulty system" as one boosts on his profile page.to win?
we are not highly paid pro chess players. i play on here for fun some want some sort of crusade really cant have much of a life
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Dead players have to go. If you don't move (for....) you don't play clan games.
Sandbaggers too. Resign under twenty moves with your queen on the board. Red card.
Less incentive overall to game the system as previously mentioned will go a long way.
Over and out for me.
Let's do it and do it amicablyP.
Originally posted by roma45ok fine, it was perhaps my fault for posting the actual mathematics which confused people.
you could start by stop calling players dim who don't understand your system
i admit i have no idea how it works and how it will stop collusion and sand bagging
What happens when you win a game, your rating goes up. What happens when you lose a game, your rating goes down. Moonbus initially proposed a system whereby clans are rewarded for their performance, just like players, We can think of a clan as a single entity, like a player in its own right.
Now imagine a challenge where all the players who win, their ratings go up, and all the players that lose, their ratings go down. This already happens. What we simply do is add or subtract how much the go up or down by and adjust the clans rating (remember a clan is just a single entity, like a person) At the end of the year the clan whose rating has gone up the most will win.
It will stop sandbagging because players who deliberately throw games will bring their clans rating down and it will stop collusion because there will be no point in pitching higher rated players against lower rated players because you will get no rewards (the higher rated players rating will hardly go up any and thus the clans overall rating will hardly go up any either because the two are linked)
feel free to ask me anything about this.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThat's totally imbecilic.
ok fine, it was perhaps my fault for posting the actual mathematics which confused people.
What happens when you win a game, your rating goes up. What happens when you lose a game, your rating goes down. Moonbus initially proposed a system whereby clans are rewarded for their performance, just like players, We can think of a clan as a single en ...[text shortened]... ity, like a person) At the end of the year the clan whose rating has gone up the most will win.
A one man clan run by someone who has sandbagged their rating down to almost nothing (gidday Lemondrop) and who then plays to their potential will win the clan system. For instance say McTayto started a one man clan at his current sandbagged rating then played fair dinkum he could increase his clans overall rating by 700 points or so. He would be a shoe in to win.
Sorry I think Padgers idea is much more feasible.
Originally posted by robbie carrobiesorry my question was how does the system stop collusion?
ok fine, it was perhaps my fault for posting the actual mathematics which confused people.
What happens when you win a game, your rating goes up. What happens when you lose a game, your rating goes down. Moonbus initially proposed a system whereby clans are rewarded for their performance, just like players, We can think of a clan as a single en ...[text shortened]... hardly go up any either because the two are linked)
feel free to ask me anything about this.
you say clans will not do it as it is not benefit?
as we witnesses last year players hop between clans, say a 13oo in clan A beats A 1500 in clan B , clan A get the rewards,thye keep doing this until the two players ratings have swopped, then they change clans with each other and start the collusion all over again
i would say your system would encourage collusion, pity their is no sportsman sgip on here
a collusion points removal and warnings is the only way forward
Originally posted by roma45Then the solution is very simple, do not allow players to play for more than one clan during a season. I would say that it would not encourage collusion any more than it would encourage people to jump off the edge of a cliff.
sorry my question was how does the system stop collusion?
you say clans will not do it as it is not benefit?
as we witnesses last year players hop between clans, say a 13oo in clan A beats A 1500 in clan B , clan A get the rewards,thye keep doing this until the two players ratings have swopped, then they change clans with each other and start the collus ...[text shortened]... is no sportsman sgip on here
a collusion points removal and warnings is the only way forward
You keep repeating the same mantra as if it has any efficacy. Punishment rarely ever solves anything, Does fear of punishment stop people from shoplifting? It appearers that for you punishment is a solution to everything i suspect because its simply easier and you don't have to think of something else.
Originally posted by radioactive69umm not if you have a rating floor it wont.
That's totally imbecilic.
A one man clan run by someone who has sandbagged their rating down to almost nothing (gidday Lemondrop) and who then plays to their potential will win the clan system. For instance say McTayto started a one man clan at his current sandbagged rating then played fair dinkum he could increase his clans overall rating by 700 points or so. He would be a shoe in to win.
Sorry I think Padgers idea is much more feasible.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieif there was no punishment there would be more shop lifting
Then the solution is very simple, do not allow players to play for more than one clan during a season. I would say that it would not encourage collusion any more than it would encourage people to jump off the edge of a cliff.
You keep repeating the same mantra as if it has any efficacy. Punishment rarely ever solves anything, Does fear of punis ...[text shortened]... to everything i suspect because its simply easier and you don't have to think of something else.
imagine a country with no police or rules
collusion has been punished in the past, points removed clans suspended
i don't want any one banned.unlike you. best punishment to see your reaction when justice is done.
i fail to see why giving a clan a rating will solve anything
Originally posted by roma45Whatever you say dude. I have explained with reference how the system could be improved no end. Sandbagging would be eradicated, throwing games would be eradicated and clans would be rewarded for their performance. All you can think of is punishing people, fine.
if there was no punishment there would be more shop lifting
imagine a country with no police or rules
collusion has been punished in the past, points removed clans suspended
i don't want any one banned.unlike you. best punishment to see your reaction when justice is done.
i fail to see why giving a clan a rating will solve anything